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Author Topic: Traveller From Portsmouth?  (Read 7953 times)
Lee
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« on: July 09, 2007, 11:16:23 »

If , like me , you regularly use the train from Portsmouth , then you might want to tell The News about your experiences. Details contained in the link below.
http://www.no450forum.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=117&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2007, 19:09:29 »

If , like me , you regularly use the train from Portsmouth , then you might want to tell The News about your experiences. Details contained in the link below.
http://www.no450forum.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=117&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
Simple solution to the 450 problem which SWT (South West Trains) won't ever do and that is put the 442 Wessies back on the Waterloo-Weymouth route and return the 444s to the Portsmouths. Problem solved but that costs money! Can't believe such a decent train as the 442s are sitting in sidings whilst passengers have to put up with trains designed for inner suburban services.
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Lee
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2007, 09:53:07 »

Simple solution to the 450 problem which SWT (South West Trains) won't ever do and that is put the 442 Wessies back on the Waterloo-Weymouth route and return the 444s to the Portsmouths. Problem solved but that costs money! Can't believe such a decent train as the 442s are sitting in sidings whilst passengers have to put up with trains designed for inner suburban services.

They arent sitting in sidings , or at least wont be for much longer. See link below.
http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2185.msg5101#msg5101
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2011, 18:25:57 »

I appreciate this is an old thread, but thought that it might be worthwhile bringing back up after listening to You and Yours today, which I only caught because Man Flu has managed to keep me at home.  Cry Also a search doesn't throw up much more related to the Class 450 debacle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/you-and-yours/

It looks like the no450 campaign has gained a new supporter in one Portsmouth North MP (Member of Parliament) Penny Mordaunt, first item in and Penny states that the 450 layout is dangerous and will only accommodate people with no arms.

Also that lots of people have said they have been injured on these trains because of the layout.  Shocked

Penny has also been helped by some very good passengers who have suggested diagram solutions that SWT (South West Trains) should look at. Sim Harrison of Rail News thought that SWT would welcome any suggestions on ways to improve the service.  Lips sealed

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Timmer
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2011, 19:41:49 »

A useful website with regards to getting 450s off the Portsmouth to London line:

http://www.no450.co.uk/
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paul7575
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 20:33:18 »

They've been running this campaign for over three years - and I suggest nothing whatsoever will happen.

I don't believe the 2+3 seating is any better or worse than that used on SN's 377s, and in any case it is exactly the same as that in LM (London Midland - recent franchise)'s 350/2s which carry passengers on similar distances on the WCML (West Coast Main Line), if not further.

The basic issue is that passengers on teh Portsmouth line had a higher proportion of 444 operated services and now they haven't - and their own tables show that it isn't all 450s anyway - despite their three years of ranting...

Paul
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Timmer
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 06:46:19 »

Being highlighted on BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Breakfast news this morning. Say what you like about this campaign but it certainly has been getting some increased press attention over the past few days since the Portsmouth North MP (Member of Parliament) got involved with an article also appearing in yesterday's Times.
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paul7575
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 10:21:29 »

I don't disagree the campaign achieves a high profile, but how to change anything is the question. 

DfT» (Department for Transport - about) require/agreed a certain number of seats on the route in the 2007 franchise change.  A 10.444 has 142 seats less than a 12.450 - I still suggest for that reason alone nothing will happen.

Paul
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JayMac
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 03:23:14 »

From the Daily Mail:

Quote
The train with seats so small you complain when you DO get one!

    * South West Trains 'makes easyJet look luxurious'
    * 'A seat on which one cannot sit is a seat in name only'

It's certainly an interesting approach to the problem of overcrowding on trains.

A rail company has made its new seats so uncomfortably narrow that although more can be fitted into the carriages fewer passengers want to use them.

Commuters have been left falling into the aisles and complaining of back pain and fearing deep vein thrombosis.

A measly 43cm (16.9ins) is allocated for each passenger in the carriages, which have five seats across, in a two-plus-three formation.

Regular carriages have only two seats either side of the aisle, allowing room for arm rests and seats that are 45cm (17.7in) wide and have a 4cm (1.6in) space between them.

Train operator South West Trains, has dismissed its customers^ gripes on the busy Portsmouth to Waterloo service, claiming the lack of space during the 90-minute journey in standard class is not a health risk but merely a ^comfort^ issue.

Now the Tory MP (Member of Parliament) for Portsmouth North, Penny Mordaunt, has  picked up the gauntlet on her constituents^ behalf.

To illustrate her case, she tried to fit three colleagues into the space allocated for three passengers on the Class 450 Desiro carriages ^ and found one ^would have been 90 per cent in the aisle^.

She told MPs during a Commons travel debate: ^Commuters on the London-Portsmouth line pay handsomely for their rail tickets.

^In return they should be able to travel ... without being in discomfort or running the risk of doing themselves harm.

^A report commissioned by South West Trains on the ergonomics of its Class 450 carriages, which are now on half the Portsmouth-London line, found that 59 per cent of people, when their elbows are taken into account, will not fit into the seats. My admittedly anecdotal evidence shows that most people prefer to travel with their elbows most of the time.^

She added: ^A seat on which one cannot sit is a seat in name only.^

Mike Hancock, MP for Portsmouth South, said the carriages made budget airline easyJet ^look luxurious^, while East Hampshire MP Damian Hinds said the issue also affected those in Liss, Liphook and Petersfield.

Transport Minister Theresa Villiers agreed to meet Miss Mordaunt to discuss her concerns.

A spokesman for Stagecoach-owned South West Trains said the seats reduced crowding at peak times, complied with legislation, and had been deemed ^ergonomically sound^ by independent assessors.

But Alistair Thompson, 33, who travels daily from Portsmouth to London, said commuters tried to avoid the ^skinny-seat^ trains, explaining: ^Any ordinary-sized person is falling over the edge or pressed up against someone. It is like a sweatshop ^ I prefer to stand.^






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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 21:03:11 »

An idea hit me the other day when looking at a railway magazine. It said there's a fair a number of class 92s stored (25 I seem to remember) so I thought: take mark3 coaches from IC125 sets displaced by electrification, fit them with power doors, convert a few into DBSOs (Driving Brake Standard Open (carriage)) and run a push-pull operation with the 92s to kick the 450s off the long-distance work and onto stuff like the Lymington shuttle (giving somewhere that doesn't have electrfication a 158). However, then I thought, how fast is a class 92? Probablly not fast enough to run to the same timings as a Desiro, but if they are fast enough this could be a good use for them. Another problem is the mark3s won't be available for many years, by which time more useful work might have appeared for the 92s.
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Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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