Newton Abbot to Paddington/Waterloo

[whole diary]

[Zoe]

Hi, I was looking up some fares on the ticket machine at Newton Abbot and for some reason the fare to Waterloo via Honiton was more expensive than the fare to Paddington.  Does anyone know why this is?  National Express East Coast website is showing a Newton Abbot to London via Honinton Off Peak Return at ^78.80.

[devon_metro]

Probably because there isn't a market to undercut the faster FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service.

Exeter - Waterloo on the other hand is a different story.
FGW ^63 SWT^▸ (South West Trains) ^57.90

[smokey]

Which is Cheaper Off Peak or Any Time?

I'd have thought off Peak was cheaper, but by NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) Newton Abbot to Stranraer is ^182.30 off peak and ^150.00 Anytime?

Anyone able to explain?

[devon_metro]

Which is Cheaper Off Peak or Any Time?

I'd have thought off Peak was cheaper, but by NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) Newton Abbot to Stranraer is ^182.30 off peak and ^150.00 Anytime?

Anyone able to explain?

^300 return

[Zoe]

I used to think that I could go via Waterloo on an "any permitted" Off Peak Return but as the via Honiton ticket is over ^10 more expensive I guess I would have risked getting charged an anytime single or possiblty a penalty fare on the train.

[inspector_blakey]

I used to think that I could go via Waterloo on an "any permitted" Off Peak Return but as the via Honiton ticket is over ^10 more expensive I guess I would have risked getting charged an anytime single or possiblty a penalty fare on the train.

Not necessarily: there's a specific CoC^▸ (Chamber of Commerce) (condition 13) that deals with travelling "off-route": for example, permitted routes from Oxford to Bristol include travel via Didcot or Reading. Off-peak day returns and cheaper off-peak returns are routed "not Reading" to avoid anyone travelling from Bristol using the Oxford fare to break their journey at Reading and save a lot of money! But if I were to buy a "not Reading" return and travel via Reading, I could only be excessed the difference between the fare paid and the cheapest "walk-on" fare (including railcard discounts). I would not be liable to pay an undiscounted anytime single or a penalty fare (despite what a small minority of staff on the ground, who try to apply condition 2 and forget that condition 13 exists in these circumstances, will try to tell you).

Of course having rambled on about that if the route you're taking isn't a permitted route in the first place then you're in trouble, but presumably any ticket issued from NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) to London Terminals would specify the route you'd take (via Honiton or via Reading) and you could excess on-board from one to the other if you needed to. I would have thought though that a ticket routed AP from NTA to London Terminals should allow travel by either route as both are surely permitted?

[Zoe]

I would have thought though that a ticket routed AP from NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) to London Terminals should allow travel by either route as both are surely permitted?

If that was the case though why would the more expensive ticket via Honiton exist?

[inspector_blakey]

Looks like there's an anomaly in the fares here: I've just searched for NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) and NTA-WAT (via HON) journeys on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s tickets site.

The NTA - London Terminals ticket is routed AP and costs ^67.00 SVR. This ticket is available for the journey using SWT^▸ (South West Trains) via HON. Since NTA to London Terminals via HON is a permitted route, you'd be totally within your rights to use this cheaper ticket.

For some reason there is another SVR fare, routed Honiton, at ^72.80. Both carry the same time restriction according to the fares manual (WW if you're interested).

So it looks like this is one of those odd situations where you can pay more money for a less flexible ticket. Can any of the rail staff on here explain why this is so or is it just one of those peculiarities that creeps into the fares manual?

[smokey]

Which is Cheaper Off Peak or Any Time?

I'd have thought off Peak was cheaper, but by NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) Newton Abbot to Stranraer is ^182.30 off peak and ^150.00 Anytime?

Anyone able to explain?

^300 return

Well that's pretty smart I make an enquirey about a Single journey and NRES quote a Return fare!!

That's not Good

[Zoe]

I'm not quite sure what the Train Manager would do then if you got on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) with a route Honiton ticket.  This would be quite a unique situation as the ticket would not be valid for the route but there would be no way of excessing it.

[devon_metro]

Indeed, would love to see them issue a negative excess 

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Indeed, would love to see them issue a negative excess 

if newton abbot is in a penalty zone i guess that could be charged

[inspector_blakey]

No it couldn't. See above regarding condition 13 and travelling off-route with a ticket. As long as you're travelling on a permitted route for the through journey (which we've established NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) to London Terminals via HON is), you can never be charged a penalty fare, only excessed the difference between the price of the ticket you hold and the price of the ticket that would have been available for immediate travel at the ticket office, including railcard discounts.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

once again I miss something major, doh

[TheLastMinute]

No it couldn't. See above regarding condition 13 and travelling off-route with a ticket. As long as you're travelling on a permitted route for the through journey (which we've established NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) to London Terminals via HON is), you can never be charged a penalty fare, only excessed the difference between the price of the ticket you hold and the price of the ticket that would have been available for immediate travel at the ticket office, including railcard discounts.

Thanks for pointing that one out Blakey, that's a very useful one know!

TLM