Driver-only operation

[whole diary]

[Doctor Gideon Ceefax]

] to stay by the panel until the train has left the platform.  

No they do not.  That requirement was removed from the rule book about 3 years ago.  That was to bring it in line with DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) where the driver is not required / able to keep a look out after the train has left the platform

Certain companies have local instructions which still apply the old rule, of which Great Western and I think Northern are two specific examples, where as London Midland do not. In much the same way that on HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s Great Western guards generally have to dispatch from the back, where as on Cross Country they dispatch from more or less wherever they want, and West Coast dispatched from the DVT^‡(resolve) a lot of the time, even if it was the leading vehicle.

[super tm]

Sorry but i totally disagree with you autotank you certainly are not in a position to appreciate the working of the railway, just look at what the guard did during the ufton nervet incident, the actions of this individual saved many lives ,and as he is know personally to me i think your opinions are an insult to his professionalism

I sure he did a great job but I dont think you can claim he saved lives.  There was an off duty police man on site who called the emergency services first. Train were stopped by the activation of track circuits.  In the report it says only that he put Track Circuit clips on the down line not the up line.  

[super tm]

Can the people on here who are share holders or senior managers or people who have axe to grind because put there hands up please?

DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) is inherently unsafe, how can removing a competent person from what can be a very dangerous environment be better?

Where would it make it better for the travelling public?

What is the benefit to the people who pay huge amounts to travel on trains?

Would it not make it worse for them or has anyone got another standard corporate response for me?

The only real gain is to Share Holders pockets, as it has already been said TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)^s do not pass on the saving to the travelling public.

I dont think anybody here has a particular axe to grind.  I am just pointing out that DOO is approved for use in this country, has done so for a number of years, both trade unions agreed to it.  I there really any need these days to have a guard on a midday midwinter St Erth to St ives train.  How is it any diifferent from a bus where conductors were removed years ago.

Yes I know it is an emotional subject and the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) rightly will try and press to keep as many guards on for as long as possible but as time goes on and new trains are bought into use then DOO will increase.  Just look at the javelin trains they will be DOO.  There was going to be a strike last year but AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) that will not happen but DOO will.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, Commander Marsters - and thanks for your thought-provoking comments!

[Btline]

Conductors are coming back on buses.

And how are fares to be collected on the St Ives line with no guard?

[super tm]

By the driver

[The SprinterMeister]

By the driver

How long do you want the journey to take? The driver would need to secure the train first before moving to the vestibule area to fidget with change and get the Advantix to spit out tickets at the rate of one per week. Total no brainer idea which wont happen.
 

[inspector_blakey]

Having stirred up this whole hornet's nest I'm going to bow out at this point: I think everything that I was going to say has been said. It will be apparent to those of you that have read my postings above that I am absolutely in favour of the retention of guards in a safety-critical capacity rather than their replacement by ticket examiners or knuckle-dragging bouncers. I remain firmly of the opinion that DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) is less safe than driver/guard working. I'm not sure I would go as far at to say that DOO is actually unsafe, but there is no doubt in my mind that driver/guard working is safer.

I'll leave a couple of quotations from the late Gerry Fiennes, who in his time was general manager of both BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))(ER) and BR(WR) and considered by many as a railwayman par excellence.

Railways are not a safe form of transport. Consider driving 400 tons at 150 mph along a couple of rails which must not deviate in gauge or in vertical lift, driven by a man who cannot stop in less than a mile and a half...Railways are safe because [railwaymen and women] make them safe.

and

...I would rather be in the hands of an experienced guard, driver, shunter in a fog or other difficulty than anyone...from any District or Head Office. We don't know what they save us from. The sagas are unsung.

[Btline]

By the driver

I am assuming you are not serious!

[chrisoates]

By the driver

St Ives branch has 5 stops & is only 3 miles long, for 6 months has 4 cars - on a busy day in winter the conductor can have trouble collecting fares from a single 153 when someone wants to go to Strood and another wants a Plusbus to Redruth. (doesn't exist)

St Ives is also a rigid 1/2 hour return which just about allows the driver time to call the St Erth signaller before going back.

Happens in summer, I went to get the branch but (like others) I couldn't get through the outflowing horde before the conductor had closed the doors & 2x2.

There's a ticket machine at St Ives but it only produces ranger tickets at ^4, there's a travel agent that sells rail tickets - their staff are excellent and they can sell you any ticket you want  BUT their primary business is not rail tickets - you wait till they have sold a holiday package.



   

[gaf71]

By the driver

Now you are being ridiculous!

[gaf71]

] to stay by the panel until the train has left the platform.  

No they do not.  That requirement was removed from the rule book about 3 years ago.  That was to bring it in line with DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) where the driver is not required / able to keep a look out after the train has left the platform

Last time I looked, this was in my Rule Book, so thats why I do it!

[super tm]

] to stay by the panel until the train has left the platform.  

No they do not.  That requirement was removed from the rule book about 3 years ago.  That was to bring it in line with DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) where the driver is not required / able to keep a look out after the train has left the platform

Last time I looked, this was in my Rule Book, so thats why I do it!

Time to update your rule book then.

[super tm]

By the driver

Now you are being ridiculous!

OK maybe a bit OTT^▸ (Open Train Times website).  But in the future we will probably all have ticket smart cards and station validators.  Penalty fare will be set at about ^100 to encourage people to validate before starting journey so requirements to sell tickets will be greatly reduced.

the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s have agreed to accept tickets issued on mobile phone and technololgy is advancing all the time.  Who knows maybe it will all go GOO^▸ (Guard Only Operation) like on the docklands.

[autotank]

No one has told me what the benefit to the traveling public DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) is?

Reduced costs which helps marginal services keep running.

Less chance of cancellation due to no show of guard.

On board staff can give passengers 100% of their attention instead of having to close the doors every few minutes which can be easily and safely carried out by the driver.