Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff from December 2008

[whole diary]

[martyjon]

Another 'grapevine rumour' that I have heard is that the Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff services are to be withdrawn from the December timetable.

These services are to be diverted to and terminate at Bristol Parkway now that station has 3 platforms and restart them there.

The reason, I was informed, is that with the retention of the half hourly HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services between London Paddington to Cardiff against the initial thoughts for the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise these services will be used as the connections for South Wales out of/into the Portsmouth services. Just a rumour but if correct I estimate this move will save 4 x 158 units, at least, out of the 12 that FGW are said to be losing in December 2008.

In an earlier post which I made on the Heart of Wessex topic regarding the Wemouth services from December a comment was left asking if I knew whether the revamp of the Weymouth services meant that the direct Cardiff to South West services were being re-instated.

I don't know, if I get to hear anything further I will post but as the December timetable will mean a recast of the cross Bristol services, I can only speculate that the current Cardiff - Westbury services may be diverted to Taunton giving rise to connections to the South West there. Very few, and these are early morning / late night services, operate as local services between Taunton and Exeter St. Davices. With the one intermediate station at Tiverton Parkway, this station is served amply by HST's and Voyagers during the major part of the day most of which all stop at Taunton and Exeter St. Davids as well.

As I said, just a ' grapevine rumour' but time will tell.

[paulsouthwales]

Another 'grapevine rumour' that I have heard is that the Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff services are to be withdrawn from the December timetable.

These services are to be diverted to and terminate at Bristol Parkway now that station has 3 platforms and restart them there.

The reason, I was informed, is that with the retention of the half hourly HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services between London Paddington to Cardiff against the initial thoughts for the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise these services will be used as the connections for South Wales out of/into the Portsmouth services. Just a rumour but if correct I estimate this move will save 4 x 158 units, at least, out of the 12 that FGW are said to be losing in December 2008.

I would be very surprised if this were true, and I can imagine that this would cause a major uproar to South Wales passengers.  We (South Wales passengers) have suffered many cutbacks over the years in terms of through services since Wales and West was reorganised in 2001.

My ideal scenario for the development of the 'wessex mainline' would be to use the 180s on an hourly Portsmouth/Brighton (alternating) - Southampton - Salisbury - Bath - Bristol - Cardiff - Rhoose - Bridgend - Swansea service. 

Now we are "intergrated", i.e. "Greater Western" and not separate companies, there is no reason why this should not be thought of!

[whistleblower]

There's a lot of traffic between South Wales and the South coast and also between Temple Meads and Cardiff so it doesn't sound very practical from the passenger flow point of view.

Also it would negate the advantage of the extra platform at Parkway to have trains terminating and reversing.  Platform 2 is not reversible except for trains from the Avonmouth branch, by the way.  I suppose they could go through the station, crossover and wait on the down goods loop but then they'd have to get it back on to a platform line again to restart.

I don't think Network Rail (or the customers) would be very enthusiastic about it.  Which probably means it will happen anyway

[Timmer]

Whether these 'grapevine rumours' are correct or not, one thing is for sure is that we are going to see some significant changes from the December timetable. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have got to save money, hand over 158s to Northern, start paying Mr Darling some serious bunce and improve their appalling punctuality record which means they are likely to come up with some rather radical ideas to make these things I have mentioned come into being.

Running the extra London-Cardiff services was not in the franchise commitment if I remember rightly; only to cost it. To go back and say we won't now run it would mean a major loss of face for the company and because its a service that involves London will get a lot more attention from the media. So yes there could be scope for this rumour of starting the Portsmouths from Bristol PW^▸ (Permanent Way) connecting from these extra Cardiff-London services but I would be very surprised if this was the case. We must though expect the unexpected with all the renewed franchises from now on in. They have got to make money for their shareholders and the government, things could get interesting especially if their is an economic slow down.

[martyjon]

With reference to my inital post on this topic, the new platform at Bristol Parkway could be used for terminating / restarting the Portsmouth services, the sets running forward to stable in the headshunt east of the former RM Terminal at Bristol Parkway, returning to the new Platform to prepare for a return working.

[whistleblower]

Yes, that would work.  I forgot about the Mail platform.  I still don't think it makes commercial sense to make people go up to Parkway to get to Cardiff.

But from a personal point of view I'd rather have a break at Parkway than go thundering through that dark, dank tunnel any more than I have to

[Timmer]

Yes, that would work.  I forgot about the Mail platform.  I still don't think it makes commercial sense to make people go up to Parkway to get to Cardiff.

But from a personal point of view I'd rather have a break at Parkway than go thundering through that dark, dank tunnel any more than I have to

Yes I'm always glad when the train comes out the other end! 

[martyjon]

I still don't think it makes commercial sense to make people go up to Parkway to get to Cardiff.


I still envisage that there will be a direct service Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - Cardiff serving the local stations at Filton Abbey Wood and Patchway (Pilning what use the one train a day is) and the occasional stopper on this route at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road.

This would at least provide work for the 142's / 143's which I am informed FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have bought outright to help alleviate the loss of the 158's from December since they are not very welcome on other parts of the FGW route network.

The information I have provided, albeit 'grapevine rumour', would tend to favour using Bristol Parkway, with its lower connection time as against BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)), as the preferred interchange for South Wales for passengers travelling from Birmingham and the North, the South West and the South Coast.

We shall see.

[Lee]

Another 'grapevine rumour' that I have heard is that the Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff services are to be withdrawn from the December timetable.

Frankly , I would be gobsmacked if this happens , given that Andrew Griffiths has told several local authorities that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) intends to develop the Portsmouth - Cardiff service.

Thanks for the views on how trains could terminate at Bristol Parkway. These will form a very useful input regarding what I am currently working on.

[paulsouthwales]

But isnt it a franchise committment for the Cardiff - Portsmouth trains to run end to end?  Its not a Bristol - Portsmouth service with the option of running to/from Cardiff?

I would be appauled if this decision to run a Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth service is taken in lieu of a Cardiff - Portsmouth service.

Would be better to change the cross-Bristol axes to:-

Cardiff - Portsmouth
Cardiff - Taunton
Cheltenham - Westbury/Southampton/Weymouth
Bristol Parkway - Weston-S-Mare

That makes more sense to me, and allows better through journey opportunities.

I'm still longing for my direct Wales Wales to Portsmouth and Cornwall services though that existed under Wales and West! 

[Timmer]

I'm still longing for my direct Wales Wales to Portsmouth and Cornwall services though that existed under Wales and West! 

Yes I remember those services in the 90s, Bath Spa had never seen such a great variety of destinations and it doesn't see them now either. I could see the sense in creating one railway for Wales like Scotland, but it cut short a great deal of direct services from the south and south west of England into Wales and that is not progress in my opinion.

[martyjon]

But isnt it a franchise committment for the Cardiff - Portsmouth trains to run end to end?  Its not a Bristol - Portsmouth service with the option of running to/from Cardiff?

But FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can always request an amendment to the franchise to cut back the service to Bristol Parkway and cite the impending loss of the 12 x 158's from December as justification.

As I said we shall see.

[Jim]

As said many times on here, the days of Pompey - Liverpool (0600) Waterloo - Fishguard (1920) and many more!

[Jez]

Another 'grapevine rumour' that I have heard is that the Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff services are to be withdrawn from the December timetable.

These services are to be diverted to and terminate at Bristol Parkway now that station has 3 platforms and restart them there.

The reason, I was informed, is that with the retention of the half hourly HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services between London Paddington to Cardiff against the initial thoughts for the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise these services will be used as the connections for South Wales out of/into the Portsmouth services. Just a rumour but if correct I estimate this move will save 4 x 158 units, at least, out of the 12 that FGW are said to be losing in December 2008.

In an earlier post which I made on the Heart of Wessex topic regarding the Wemouth services from December a comment was left asking if I knew whether the revamp of the Weymouth services meant that the direct Cardiff to South West services were being re-instated.

I don't know, if I get to hear anything further I will post but as the December timetable will mean a recast of the cross Bristol services, I can only speculate that the current Cardiff - Westbury services may be diverted to Taunton giving rise to connections to the South West there. Very few, and these are early morning / late night services, operate as local services between Taunton and Exeter St. Davices. With the one intermediate station at Tiverton Parkway, this station is served amply by HST's and Voyagers during the major part of the day most of which all stop at Taunton and Exeter St. Davids as well.

As I said, just a ' grapevine rumour' but time will tell.

Any news on whether this will happen? I hope not. Although if it did happen I hope they have 2 trains per hour to London Paddington on Saturdays to provide better connections to Bristol Parkway. Currently we only have 1 HST on Saturdays with 2 during the week.

It made sense to change the Cardiff-Westbury service back to Cardiff-Taunton however. I never understood why they had 2 trains per hour running to Westbury.

[Shazz]

This was for the TT just gone, so no it never happened.