Christmas and Boxing Day trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Whether there would be sufficient sipply of coaches/buses for the inevitable bustitutions necessary if a Boxing Day service was run, wiuld be a moot point.

Once started, there would be no choosing to run a service. So buses etc would be needed. Many are utilised on taking holidaymakers on Christmas holidays, and wouldn't be available

[grahame]

Whether there would be sufficient sipply of coaches/buses for the inevitable bustitutions necessary if a Boxing Day service was run, wiuld be a moot point.

Once started, there would be no choosing to run a service. So buses etc would be needed. Many are utilised on taking holidaymakers on Christmas holidays, and wouldn't be available

It's very difficult to know where the engineering works are being done on Boxing day because there are no trains, and where there are no trains because engineering works are being done - to know what is cause and what is effect.

For example, it's sensible for the bridge over the main line east of Swindon to be replaced over these two days because there are no trains ... but had there been the serious want of a train service, could that replacement work have not equally been done during the weekend shutdown of the entire Swindon area when the signal controls were being switched to Didcot, thus leaving the line available on 26th December?   Rhetorical question ... not looking for an answer, by the way!

Sunday services are increasing / becoming a little more like the rest of the week, but are still far from complete in their coverage, and indeed the same would probably be the case on Boxing Day.   I wouldn't advocate (at one extreme) a "halts train" between Oxford and Evesham - at least at first(!) - and I think it unlikely that The Drain should run.  Where I have local knowledge - and that's the TransWilts - I would suggest running round trips, from Westbury at around 07:30 and every 2 hours to 11:30, 14:30 and every 2 hours to mid evening (20:30?).  With that service level perhaps remaining suitable even when "Vision 2020" is realised.

Isn't suggesting that replacement buses will be busy doing things elsewhere (a) well away from the truth, because bus services ain't running [much] anyway and (b) being an admission of defeat were it true?

[TaplowGreen]

Daily Mail - Tories accused of hypocrisy on Boxing Day rail shutdown: after twenty operators fail to offer services today as hundreds of families and sports travel around the country

Swindon Advertiser - Railway is scoring own goal by not running Boxing Day trains warns passenger group leader

The Guardian - Boxing Day rail shutdown prompts Labour accusation of Tory hypocrisy

The Mirror - Labour slams Tories over Boxing Day rail chaos hypocrisy as trains shutdown

A popular and pertinent annual debate, and I wholeheartedly agree that there should be Boxing Day trains in the normal scheme of things - airlines, National Express etc all operate Christmas Day and Boxing day and the Tube is running today so why should the railways be any different? There is clearly a demand.

I think it's legitimate to have a Christmas shutdown whilst all the engineering work is ongoing as it provides a window for a lot of work to be done in a short period of time (although arguably this could be better achieved in say August when a lot of people are on their hols, which are more of a moveable feast than Christmas so would be easier to adjust for), however you also have to factor in outdated agreements which guarantee rail staff time off on Christmas Day/Boxing day, can you imagine the agony of renegotiating those against the background of Trade Unions which are already happy to call strikes on the feeblest of premises?

I hope that in the fullness of time and once the excuse of major engineering work is finished (perhaps with the advent of Crossrail?) the railways will put their customers first ahead of their own interests and answer the need for services on Boxing Day in order to help people attend sales/sporting events etc.

Interestingly as I write this there are engineering trains pootling to and fro around Taplow, tooting their horns and waking everyone up!

[ellendune]

Swindon Advertiser - Railway is scoring own goal by not running Boxing Day trains warns passenger group leader

"Passenger group leader" - I wonder who that might be - Yes it is

[SandTEngineer]

There are 'main line' trains running this Boxing Day.  There is a 20 minute interval Heathrow Connect service between Heathrow T123 and T4 and also T123 and T5.......

[PhilWakely]

There are 'main line' trains running this Boxing Day.  There is a 30 minute interval Heathrow Connect service between Heathrow T123 and T4 and also T123 and T5.......

And Chiltern are running a half-hourly service between Oxford Parkway and Marylebone

[SandTEngineer]

There are 'main line' trains running this Boxing Day.  There is a 30 minute interval Heathrow Connect service between Heathrow T123 and T4 and also T123 and T5.......

And Chiltern are running a half-hourly service between Oxford Parkway and Marylebone

Yes.  Just beat me to it.......

...and services out of London Victoria, Brighton and lots of other London area Southern suburban stations.

[ellendune]

Not much scope for Boxing Day trains out of Paddington until Crossrail is finished.   

[SandTEngineer]

Not much scope for Boxing Day trains out of Paddington until Crossrail is finished.   

Crossrail works mostly affect the Relief Lines.  The Paddington to Hayes signalling system was engineered by BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) (yes, remember them) to seperate the Relief Lines signalling from the Main Lines signalling to allow very such events, but hey-ho, thats the 'modern' railway for you......nobody seems to want to really try anymore

[grahame]

"Passenger group leader" - I wonder who that might be - Yes it is

Hmmm ... from the school of sensationalist journalism, I'm afraid (The Swindon Advertiser is a bit that way at times!).  Their choice of description, and one that wasn't cleared with / given by me.  

Not much scope for Boxing Day trains out of Paddington until Crossrail is finished.   

Agreed - the idea floated is that the train route plan for 27th December (and subsequent days) be extrapolated back to 26th December, and not that everything is opened for the day on 26th.

[JayMac]

ScotRail are also running some services today, mostly centred on Glasgow. Of course Scotland has a network closedown on 1st January which isn't the case in the rest of Great Britain.

Merseyrail are running trains for the first time on Boxing Day. An hourly service on most lines between 0900-1830.

[IndustryInsider]

I hope that in the fullness of time and once the excuse of major engineering work is finished (perhaps with the advent of Crossrail?) the railways will put their customers first ahead of their own interests and answer the need for services on Boxing Day in order to help people attend sales/sporting events etc.

Interestingly as I write this there are engineering trains pootling to and fro around Taplow, tooting their horns and waking everyone up!

Quite agree that Boxing Day should have a much more widespread service, and I've said before (I think) that the drivers contracts for Crossrail do have agreements for working those days, so I'm fully expecting some sort of service when that commences.  I'm not sure there is enough demand to run any service on Christmas Day as I don't think it offers value for money to the taxpayers that would end up paying for the few that would use it.

Regarding the engineering trains, having travelled between Paddington and Oxford on Xmas Eve evening I have never seen so many laden engineering trains, plant, equipment and staff ready to go as soon as the lines were shut.  Let's hope all the important stuff is finished on time!

[TaplowGreen]

"Passenger group leader" - I wonder who that might be - Yes it is

Hmmm ... from the school of sensationalist journalism, I'm afraid (The Swindon Advertiser is a bit that way at times!).  Their choice of description, and one that wasn't cleared with / given by me.  

Not much scope for Boxing Day trains out of Paddington until Crossrail is finished.   

Agreed - the idea floated is that the train route plan for 27th December (and subsequent days) be extrapolated back to 26th December, and not that everything is opened for the day on 26th.

  "Passenger Gruppenfuhrer" is your title from now on!

[grahame]

And from The Guardian

Boxing Day travellers frustrated by rail shutdown

Football fans and shoppers among those bemoaning lack of trains, as Network Rail carries out engineering work on many routes

Thousands of would-be train travellers are being forced to stay at home or travel by road on Boxing Day, with the majority of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)^s rail operators running no services.

With a full programme of Premier League football, fans tweeted complaints of being unable to reach stadiums. Bargain hunters also expressed disappointment at being unable to travel to the shops.

"Poxy trains not running, oh the joy of travelling to football on Boxing Day,. said Yvonne Hazard, a Tottenham Hotspur fan. ^Still can^t believe trains don^t run on Boxing Day when there^s Boxing Day sales and football on!^, wrote Aston Villa fan Heidi Awome.

"Gutted I can^t make the game today as there are no trains,. wrote Alex Vitsileos , another Villa fan.

Mark Carne, chief executive of Network Rail, defended the widespread closures. Passenger numbers are 50% lower over Christmas, he said, making it the most practical time of year to carry out engineering work.

I don't think anyone's denying it's the most practical time of year to carry out engineering works - but isn't there quite a big gap between a signifcant set of engineering closures and the very few services indeed that are running today?   Passenger numbers are indeed lower over Christmas - there's something of "cause and effect" here, though - we learned in the winter of 2006 that if you provide a much reduced service (or no service at all) and time remaining trains when it's operationally convenient, you'll find that passenger numbers drop.

Here's an illustration picking up data from an archived Save the Train page and adding in current information.

Until December 2006 - Monday to Friday: 05:52 07:45 13:35 17:02 and 21:33
Until December 2013 - Monday to Friday: 07:19 and 19:48
From December 2013 - Monday to Friday: 07:19 07:49 10:04 12:03 14:30 16:37 18:48 and 19:48

Until December 2006 - Monday to Friday: 06:30 08:46 14:23 17:43 and 22:11
Until December 2013 - Monday to Friday: 06:12 and 18:44
From December 2013 - Monday to Friday: 06:12 08:49 10:47 12:47 15:12 17:36 18:52 and 20:12

Annual ticketed journeys to / from Melksham - prior to December 2006, estimated at around 15,000 per year.  Years after December 2006, estimated at around 5,000 per year. Latest published figures around 52,000 per year (to March 2015), with our counts suggesting a current run rate of around 75,000 per year (which is probably a higher figure than you'll see in the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) figures next December due to the Bath blockade in July / August)

I suspect that if a widespread Boxing Day service were provided, it would be used. Just as I suspect that if the final train that ran prior to December 2006 was to be restored, the round trip would carry a couple of dozen passengers within the first few months, and those passengers would be newcomers who would make the other half of their round trips on the other trains already running, helping bolster those trains - and taking fares for seats that would otherwise be largely unoccupied.

[ChrisB]

The major problem would be sussing out the likely demand, which I'd suggest would very quickly be higher than a standard Saturday. Think the complaints of overfull trains/unable to board would be far worse than the complaints being made now!

Pax would expect cheap tickets too, super off-peaks & lower advance fares, thus making it a very much loss-leader for the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), especially when the unions would want top-dollar benefits 3xwages plus day off in lieu I'd suggest the demand would be, maybe also volunteer labour only).

Basically the tax-payer will be paying the TOCs through their franchises.

Is it really worth it? When major routes would need bustitution too? Would volunteer labour be willing to staff these?