Christmas and Boxing Day trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

But that's what presumably *has* been happening, otherwise these on-tge-day cancellationdms wouldn't be on-the-day, but publicised in advance?

[ellendune]

But that's what presumably *has* been happening, otherwise these on-tge-day cancellationdms wouldn't be on-the-day, but publicised in advance?

Not necessarily just decide they do not want to work, staff do get sick and there are quite a few bugs around at the moment.

[ChrisB]

But "do not want to work" within the 5day window, we're told, isn't allowed.

My point is that it does happen though (quite a bit)

[IndustryInsider]

But that's what presumably *has* been happening, otherwise these on-tge-day cancellationdms wouldn't be on-the-day, but publicised in advance?

No it does't.  As I said, that's not how it works.  If a driver did decide to refuse to come in then there are penalties in the form of ticks against their name - not a perfect system, but it seems to work, as I can't remember the last person who applied for a rest day work, got one, then said they weren't coming in (unless sick).  More ticks mean your less likely to get a rest day work in the future. 

Basically the roster is produced around five days in advance using all available drivers (including those who have applied to work a rest day).  After that the advance planning team attempt to cover any shortages identified through a combination of overtime, bribing drivers to start early/late, taking people off non-essential training etc.  After that any further shortages can be covered by 'cutting and pasting' some of the diagrams that have slack within them.  All of which means it's a very dynamic process until the day in question, and usually everything can be covered by hook or by crook.

Then when all is planned as best it can be, drivers going sick or taken off driving for some other reason can cause really short notice issues which can also lead to cancellations.

[ChrisB]

So how cone all those Cornwall cancellations we heard about up-thread?

It sounds as those were either known about well in advance & ought to have been broadcast sooner, or there were indeed an awful lot of 'ticks' that day?

[Network SouthEast]

The Rest Day ticks of shame are posted regularly company wide on the online roster system.  If this Christmas is like every other Christmas we've had then the number of "5 ticks" drivers will probably be in single digits for the entire company.

As IndustryInsider says there are still backlogs of training throughout the company, and despite recent efforts, I think we're a long way away from having all traincrew fully trained on the routes/traction that is required of their depot.

[Super Guard]

So how cone all those Cornwall cancellations we heard about up-thread?

It sounds as those were either known about well in advance & ought to have been broadcast sooner, or there were indeed an awful lot of 'ticks' that day?

Masses of St Ives branch cancellations in Cornwall - number of drivers/guards required to go sick/not turn up causing said cancellations = 1.  Clearly they thought running the main line service was preferable and better to cancel the bulk of St Ives branch.

Edit:  The point being that with short trips, many trips are diagrammed to one turn, so a page of 10/15 services cancelled can just be down to 1 member of crew being unavailable.  I know this wasn't the total case in Cornwall with mainline service issues too, but it's not always as grim as journey check will have you believe.

From what I see at certain depots, overtime is available to anyone who wants it, but apart from the tiny minority that would sell their granny for a few hours extra pay, crews are just tired and don't want to do it.  Tired of shifting their start/finish times most days to fix that days crisis, tired of dealing with (justifiably) angry customers everywhere they turn, tired of delays and disruption and then on top of it all, not really feeling like the company values them at all.  Who wants to subject themselves to their day off doing more of that when they don't have to, no matter the financial benefit?

[ChrisB]

So the liklihood of enough staff wanting to work Boxing Day, even with serious, but publicly acceptable inducements is very unlikely right now, correct?

[IndustryInsider]

As I've said, I think you'd get enough volunteers if the right money was paid.  I presume Chiltern had no problems getting volunteers this year, nor the other franchisees who operated trains?

Take the Reading to Paddington shuttle I suggested, where for a stopping service every 30 minutes you'd need less than a dozen drivers.  Consider that all drivers from Oxford, Reading and Paddington LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) depots sign that route and that's a pool of over 300 drivers who'd possibly be eligible.

[Super Guard]

So the liklihood of enough staff wanting to work Boxing Day, even with serious, but publicly acceptable inducements is very unlikely right now, correct?

If it was the same rate as a days overtime (x1.25) you'd be correct.  However, a Boxing Day service in the early days I would expect a higher figure to be offered.

Although, there were some driver "caretaker" shifts available to work 25th/26th December to ensure trains are regularly started and all working ok, prepped and ready for the 27th paid at double time, and I know that in certain depots, not all turns were initially covered by volunteers.

Interestingly, colleagues of mine who used to work at FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) tell of recently getting triple time to work New Years Eve after a certain time of the evening.  There is no enhancement for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) drivers (or other staff for NY).

[ChrisB]

On shift patterns, I wouldn't expect very much of an uplift to be paid - except maybe for the trains beyond end of normal service.

Double time definitely for Boxing Day, plus maybe the day off in lieu as well. But unions want even more than that.

Chiltern were sponsored by Bicester Village, at a rate where volunteers were very, very willing & oversubscribed, I heard.

[a-driver]

As I've said, I think you'd get enough volunteers if the right money was paid.  I presume Chiltern had no problems getting volunteers this year, nor the other franchisees who operated trains?

Take the Reading to Paddington shuttle I suggested, where for a stopping service every 30 minutes you'd need less than a dozen drivers.  Consider that all drivers from Oxford, Reading and Paddington LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) depots sign that route and that's a pool of over 300 drivers who'd possibly be eligible.

But you'll also need depot drivers, station dispatch staff and maintenance staff but having said that I reckon you could still get enough volunteers though.  Not everyone is married or has family to spend Christmas with.

[ChrisB]

Indeed, those not of a Christian persuasion too, who don't celebrate Christmas - of which there are many on the railway.

The major problem as I see it is the cost. Most definitely off-peak, although you could remove Advance fares altogether in favour of walk-up fares only which would go some way, but nowhere all the way in meeting this. Negotiations with Unions over the rate of remuneration would be hard. The last I heard was that the demand would be triple pay WITH also a day off in lieu. Frankly, I see no reason for that, and would support the operators in refusing to meet this.

[TaplowGreen]

Indeed, those not of a Christian persuasion too, who don't celebrate Christmas - of which there are many on the railway.

The major problem as I see it is the cost. Most definitely off-peak, although you could remove Advance fares altogether in favour of walk-up fares only which would go some way, but nowhere all the way in meeting this. Negotiations with Unions over the rate of remuneration would be hard. The last I heard was that the demand would be triple pay WITH also a day off in lieu. Frankly, I see no reason for that, and would support the operators in refusing to meet this.

That's sheer greed.............although to be fair in my first ever job I once worked Christmas Day and got triple time + an extra day off (there were no shortage of volunteers!!!)  but we are talking about Boxing Day and double time seems appropriate.........the example of Chiltern/Bicester suggests it would work, in the Thames Valley anyway...........I reckon on the longer distance routes you might need boarding controls/reservations only to cope with the numbers?

[a-driver]

I don't see why you would need to involve the unions if was done on a volunteer basis only.  It's then up to the individual wether they chose to accept the terms laid out. Triple time on its own or double time and 2 days off in lieu I'd probably go for that.
Seek volunteers well in advance and once you've got a firm idea on numbers you can plan a service around that.