Christmas and Boxing Day trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

But there woukd be uproar at the fares needed to even simply break even.

That's half the problem. No one would pay a peak (or more) fare, and you'd soon see the 'demand' disappear

[TaplowGreen]

But there woukd be uproar at the fares needed to even simply break even.

That's half the problem. No one would pay a peak (or more) fare, and you'd soon see the 'demand' disappear

I refer the Hon Gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago...........you don't know any of that, you're just making assumptions.....people pay peak/premium fares for differing reasons all the time, whether it's for holidays in Spain during the school holidays, or on popular trains to the Westcountry on Friday afternoons, I don't see demand dropping there, quite the opposite in fact!

[IndustryInsider]

But there woukd be uproar at the fares needed to even simply break even.

That's half the problem. No one would pay a peak (or more) fare, and you'd soon see the 'demand' disappear

That's why you write it into the franchise specification, and adjust the premium payments that the new franchise will give accordingly - one day in 365 isn't going to affect things much.  As I've said many many trains and routes don't operate anywhere near at a profit no matter how busy the trains are anyway - the Boxing Day service would simply be an extension of that socially necessary principle.  Other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s manage to do it.

Either that, or you find a sponsor like Chiltern did in the form of Bicester Village who pays to subsidise the losses!

[ChrisB]

One signal controller is all Chiltern needs, half a dozen-ish drivers and bare minimum staff at Marylebone. Can't see FGW^▸ (First Great Western) managing on that somehow

Those aren't my assumptions, but those of the industry. Too many staff needed by them to rely on volunteers too.

Biggest problem though, already mentioned, is that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) are likely to close a major artery every year

[IndustryInsider]

One signal controller is all Chiltern needs, half a dozen-ish drivers and bare minimum staff at Marylebone. Can't see FGW^▸ (First Great Western) managing on that somehow

You do realise that the majority of the larger signalboxes/panelboxes etc. stay open throughout to deal with engineering blockades and trains?  So, The signalling staff will be already there come 2020 when Didcot TVSC^» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) controls the route.

So, half a dozen-ish and bare minimum staff at Paddington/Reading/Slough would be all that was needed for a Reading to London shuttle for example.  That would at least be a start.

[ChrisB]

Suspect slightly more than half a dozenish drivers on that route, even if major stations only...and there would be complaints if not vast majority...thus a lot longer than Chilterns trips to Bicester

[John R]

I'm not convinced about the need to offer services to get people to the sales, sporting events, etc, as those are things that people do by choice. Where I think the railway could usefully offer a service is to get those people home who only have a limited window to visit family and need to be back at work on the 27th (especially when that is a weekday).

So for me, a service starting mid afternoon and offering a skeleton service on some of the longer distance routes would be a service that met a greater social need. Lets say 3 of 4 trains each way from London to each of Bristol and Swansea as a starter.  By starting it mid afternoon, day trippers would not swamp the services. And the staffing required should be relatively manageable, particularly if the shifts didn't start until after lunchtime. If there was a concern about overcrowding then perhaps they could be made reservation only for the first year, until demand become clear.

Obviously engineering work still remains an issue on the Great Western currently, but the principle would be the same for other lines too.

[JayMac]

ChrisB, why happy with Chiltern on Boxing Day, but not other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) doing the same as ScotRail, TSGN (Southern, Gatwick Express), Southeastern (HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel)), AGA (Stansted Express) who are all running a limited train service?

Why are you suggesting there are all these insurmountable hurdles in the way of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) doing similar?

[IndustryInsider]

Suspect slightly more than half a dozenish drivers on that route, even if major stations only...and there would be complaints if not vast majority...thus a lot longer than Chilterns trips to Bicester

A lot longer?

Bicester to London Marylebone on Boxing Day = 66 minutes
Reading to London Paddington calling at vast majority of stations (22:17 this evening) = 62 minutes

[RichardB]

In my view, not running trains on Boxing Day is like picking a Sunday in February, cancelling the entire train service and not providing replacement buses.

Through fares and taxes, we all pay a lot for the railways  (and most are happy to do so) - closing the railways on Boxing Day and not giving people without a car the chance to travel that day is an anachronism that has to end.

The fact I can't get to Brentford v Ipswich and am very annoyed about this is beside the point.......

[ellendune]

In my view, not running trains on Boxing Day is like picking a Sunday in February, cancelling the entire train service and not providing replacement buses.

Through fares and taxes, we all pay a lot for the railways  (and most are happy to do so) - closing the railways on Boxing Day and not giving people without a car the chance to travel that day is an anachronism that has to end.

The fact I can't get to Brentford v Ipswich and am very annoyed about this is beside the point.......

I see your point to an extent.  However coach services still run on Boxing Day so we are not entirely without public transport. 

I don't know but I suspect when the boxing day closure started there were substantially fewer passengers than on  random Sunday in February.  More like a Sunday without the evening rush. Although things have changed a bit since then I am not sure it would make a huge difference in most areas.

Set against any benefit to a few would be the further pressure on engineering possessions and the difficulty in getting staff to volunteer. 

[TaplowGreen]

In my view, not running trains on Boxing Day is like picking a Sunday in February, cancelling the entire train service and not providing replacement buses.

Through fares and taxes, we all pay a lot for the railways  (and most are happy to do so) - closing the railways on Boxing Day and not giving people without a car the chance to travel that day is an anachronism that has to end.

The fact I can't get to Brentford v Ipswich and am very annoyed about this is beside the point.......

......I've got to try to get from Reading to Newport to watch the mighty Plymouth Argyle!

[JayMac]

......I've got to try to get from Reading to Newport to watch the mighty Plymouth Argyle!

You have my sympathy. 

[Super Guard]

......I've got to try to get from Reading to Newport to watch the mighty Plymouth Argyle!

You have my sympathy. 

For the journey or to watch Argyle? 

Given the amount of engineering that happens during the "shutdown", I wonder how the public would feel being further disrupted through the year if engineering has to be done over several disrupted weekends, rather than getting it done in one period of 48 hours?

[grahame]

......I've got to try to get from Reading to Newport to watch the mighty Plymouth Argyle!

Reading to Newport is possible - see attachment ... not sure how many fans will be able to get on though.  On the other hand, Reading's not going to be the main starting points for Plymouth or Newport fans, is it?