Christmas and Boxing Day trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Rhydgaled]

Elsewhere in Britain, travellers who normally rely on trains will have to stay at home or go by bus.

Stay at home for me, our local bus operator doesn't run boxing day (barely any Sunday or Bank Holiday services the rest of the year either, only a handful of routes are funded to run on Sundays and then only in the summer holiday period (and they aren't the 'mainline' bus routes either)). They are running Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve though, except one route finishes earlier in the evening than normal.

[ChrisB]

I don't think enough staff want to work...and its completely unfair IMO^▸ (in my opinion) to force anyone to over Christmas. New Year is another matter.

On the rails, the staff you'd need to safely run even an hourly service is enormous...you'd never get enough volunteers. Secondly, I suspect demand on Boxing Day would probably be peak levels, or possibly even higher than that - operators,justly I think, worry that they couldn't physically carry everyone wanting to travel

[TaplowGreen]

I don't think enough staff want to work...and its completely unfair IMO^▸ (in my opinion) to force anyone to over Christmas. New Year is another matter.

On the rails, the staff you'd need to safely run even an hourly service is enormous...you'd never get enough volunteers. Secondly, I suspect demand on Boxing Day would probably be peak levels, or possibly even higher than that - operators,justly I think, worry that they couldn't physically carry everyone wanting to travel

Agreed - demand on Boxing Day would be extremely high with people wanting to return after Christmas, attend sporting events, sales etc, which surely is the argument for providing a service?............sorry though I don't accept that it's "unfair" to "force" people to work over Christmas, if you choose to work in a sector that provides a service to the public, you must accept that part of that is providing the service when its required, there are plenty of people in my Business who don't want to work over Christmas but they realise that the service has to be maintained so they get on with it, and I don't see rail operators normally fretting about running overcrowded services every day of the year?

[Super Guard]

I don't think enough staff want to work...and its completely unfair IMO^▸ (in my opinion) to force anyone to over Christmas. New Year is another matter.

On the rails, the staff you'd need to safely run even an hourly service is enormous...you'd never get enough volunteers. Secondly, I suspect demand on Boxing Day would probably be peak levels, or possibly even higher than that - operators,justly I think, worry that they couldn't physically carry everyone wanting to travel

You're assuming the public want to escape their family but the staff don't?  

[ChrisB]

Not enough of them, methinks

[Super Guard]

I don't think enough staff want to work...and its completely unfair IMO^▸ (in my opinion) to force anyone to over Christmas. New Year is another matter.

On the rails, the staff you'd need to safely run even an hourly service is enormous...you'd never get enough volunteers. Secondly, I suspect demand on Boxing Day would probably be peak levels, or possibly even higher than that - operators,justly I think, worry that they couldn't physically carry everyone wanting to travel

Agreed - demand on Boxing Day would be extremely high with people wanting to return after Christmas, attend sporting events, sales etc, which surely is the argument for providing a service?............sorry though I don't accept that it's "unfair" to "force" people to work over Christmas, if you choose to work in a sector that provides a service to the public, you must accept that part of that is providing the service when its required, there are plenty of people in my Business who don't want to work over Christmas but they realise that the service has to be maintained so they get on with it, and I don't see rail operators normally fretting about running overcrowded services every day of the year?

I'm going to make one further post before I leave this thread, as it'll just turn into the same public V staff arguments that arise every single year when this is bought up.

A change of contract will need to be agreed with the unions as it's in black and white, we don't have to work 25th/26th.  A voluntary agreement could be put in to trial Boxing Day, but then you are attempting to run a service at the mercy of staff goodwill.  I wouldn't put money on there being enough goodwill at the moment.

I totally agree with II, that nothing is going to change in the next 5 years at least.  

Whether you like it or not, the staff hold the winning card at the moment, if the boot was on the other foot, no business would make a concession, so don't expect the staff to.

We have families too, and to many many staff, no amount of money is going to get us in, because life is too short and sometimes you just want to be with your loved ones.

While I agree a service is needed, that's only because society has turned Boxing Day into a ridiculous commercial and sporting event.  How did we ever cope with sales starting on the 27th?  How did we ever cope without Sky Sports?

I've travelled to many countries and it never ceases to amaze me how they survive staying closed on Sundays.  Economies must be falling off a cliff.  Families spending time together, a proper day of the week to rest physically and mentally and be away from the madness and stress of the rest of the week.  I don't think much of human "progress" at times.

Merry Christmas.

[IndustryInsider]

I don't think enough staff want to work...and its completely unfair IMO^▸ (in my opinion) to force anyone to over Christmas. New Year is another matter.  On the rails, the staff you'd need to safely run even an hourly service is enormous...you'd never get enough volunteers.

If you give a decent incentive then they would.  If they don't then how can you explain that other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s can provide a service?

Secondly, I suspect demand on Boxing Day would probably be peak levels, or possibly even higher than that - operators,justly I think, worry that they couldn't physically carry everyone wanting to travel

I disagree.  I think there would be a reasonable amount of people wanting to travel, but not an excessive amount.  Enough to make it worthwhile doing on a social basis on the key routes - like some of the other TOC's are doing.
Boxing Day services ran on many routes until fairly recently (even Christmas Day trains used to run).  The main thing stopping it at the moment on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) routes is the engineering work and the number of signalboxes - both of which will become easier to manage by the end of the decade.

Anyway, even if the wider Greater Western franchise holder doesn't provide a service, I can certainly see the Crossrail route running on Boxing Day pretty much from the start.

[ChrisB]

Hmmm...not so sure.

London Overground (the only TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail equivalent currently) is completely shut on Bixing Day this year.

[IndustryInsider]

Hmmm...not so sure.

London Overground (the only TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail equivalent currently) is completely shut on Bixing Day this year.

Well, as ever, we'll see.     The London Overground situation is possibly linked with the many signalboxes that need to be opened to control the various routes?  Even so I'm a little surprised more effort isn't made to run some of their routes.

[TaplowGreen]

I don't think it needs to be "Public v Staff", however the need/demand for a Boxing Day service seems to be acknowledged by all so I guess at some stage its a case of Management/Staff/Unions sitting down and working out how to make it happen - money, as always, talks.

Equally I am sure that everyone acknowledges the value of time spent with family, that isn't limited to Rail staff, but times change and contracts change with them, Businesses have to take account of the needs of their customers as well as their staff, but it's hard to think of a major public service that shuts down completely over Christmas in the same way as the railway does, particularly at a time when it's most needed......the clue is in the word "service", and TFL^▸ (Transport for London) seem to manage to run the Tube OK.

Clearly however with all the engineering going on it probably isn't worth contemplating until it's pretty much all done as Christmas is a heaven sent opportunity to undertake major works (....no doubt those engineers would rather be at home with family too....but I'm sure they're making it worth their while to be there!!!)

I hope you all have a wonderful Xmas, whether you're working or not 

[Electric train]

I don't think enough staff want to work...and its completely unfair IMO^▸ (in my opinion) to force anyone to over Christmas. New Year is another matter.

On the rails, the staff you'd need to safely run even an hourly service is enormous...you'd never get enough volunteers. Secondly, I suspect demand on Boxing Day would probably be peak levels, or possibly even higher than that - operators,justly I think, worry that they couldn't physically carry everyone wanting to travel

Agreed - demand on Boxing Day would be extremely high with people wanting to return after Christmas, attend sporting events, sales etc, which surely is the argument for providing a service?............sorry though I don't accept that it's "unfair" to "force" people to work over Christmas, if you choose to work in a sector that provides a service to the public, you must accept that part of that is providing the service when its required, there are plenty of people in my Business who don't want to work over Christmas but they realise that the service has to be maintained so they get on with it, and I don't see rail operators normally fretting about running overcrowded services every day of the year?

I am with Scrooge on this topic make Christmas Day and Boxing day a normal working day bin the Public Holiday concept for everyone; if you want the day off book it as holiday, that make it equal for every one.

Also it has to be remembered employees of TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) and not public sector they work for a commercial undertaking that provides a service to the public just like banks and shops

[ChrisB]

Banks are shut......

[Ollie]

Does this mean that Scotrail should have services on New Years Day? Or perhaps we could do what they do, limited service Boxing Day and have New Years Day off?

[Timmer]

Isn't the reason why they don't run trains in Scotland New Year's Day because most are too hung over to drive/use a train following Hogmanay? 

[TaplowGreen]

Banks are shut......

Banks make a commercial decision that demand for their services over Christmas can be met via ATMs^‡(resolve) and online factilities - it's really quite simple - FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (for example) can assess demand for services on Boxing Day, and work out what resources they need to meet that demand - if necessary, if there is concern over massive overcrowding (which seems perfectly acceptable for the rest of the year) make trains pre-booked/reservations only or with only a few unreserved tickets available....based on this, work out staffing, offer generous overtime/TOIL to volunteers, if not enough people  come forward look at who had A/L at the last Bank Holidays or prioritise based on length of service/seniority etc............that is exactly the way (in parallel) my Business operates over Christmas and I am sure most others.......it's amazing what you can achieve when you look for solutions and opportunities rather than just highlighting problems and reasons why things won't/can't work......that's how a Business succeeds, and keeps its customers happy.......if there were ever real competition on the railways, some people would be in for a hell of a shock.