Christmas and Boxing Day trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Brusselier]

Does anyone in the industry (or outside for that matter) know how well the half hourly Southeastern Highspeed Boxing Day service between Ashford and St Pancras went? Southeastern website has remained quiet on the subject. It was being marketed at those looking to go shopping at Ashford designer outlet, Westfield and London by using the park and ride service from Ebbsfleet quarry.

[Super Guard]

Staff seem to be getting a raw rep here.. I think if they asked for volunteers, and paid the premium, there would be enough willing to run a skeleton service - they can get drivers to carry out care-taker duties on the depot on Christmas Day. 

Until a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) says, we can't run a service because of staffing levels, then I think it's a little unfair to keep throwing the "find another industry" comments at us.

Also, does any heavy maintenance to rolling stock happen during this period, while it's guaranteed to be out of public use?

[Maxwell P]

The overwhelming majority of rail staff are professional enough to moderate alcohol intake in relationship to work demands.  If Boxing Day were to become a rostered duty day, services would be worked as safely and professionally as they are on any other day. 

Operational staff are used to working unsociable hours and in all weather conditions. Yes it is well paid, yes the unions have negotiated a good working environment and yes, we do live in the real world.  As many other forms of transport in that real world charge a premium for operating on such festive occasions, presumably TaplowGreen would not mind shelling out enhanced fares to cover the no doubt, scandalously high additional payments to us refugees from 1973.

[TaplowGreen]

Glad to hear it!

.....and I've no doubt that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would take the opportunity to maximise ticket income were such a service to be introduced!!!

[LiskeardRich]

The overwhelming majority of rail staff are professional enough to moderate alcohol intake in relationship to work demands.  If Boxing Day were to become a rostered duty day, services would be worked as safely and professionally as they are on any other day. 

Operational staff are used to working unsociable hours and in all weather conditions. Yes it is well paid, yes the unions have negotiated a good working environment and yes, we do live in the real world.  As many other forms of transport in that real world charge a premium for operating on such festive occasions, presumably TaplowGreen would not mind shelling out enhanced fares to cover the no doubt, scandalously high additional payments to us refugees from 1973.

#


Taxis and buses were charging double fare when operating near me on Boxing day, and I would fully support any train operating to charge double also

[didcotdean]

If it was 1973 there would still be a Boxing Day train service.

When services were first withdrawn in 1975, ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) protested against the decision. Ray Buckton stated that it may be good personally for his members, but a bad move for passengers who attended sporting occasions or visited relatives. With the absence of the mention of shopping these seem to be the same points still being made for a Boxing Day service.

The claimed saving was ^130k.

They were back though in 1977, when Boxing Day fell on a Monday, and withdrawn in 1980 when it was a Friday again. They didn't reappear until 1988, and then only in limited form.

[broadgage]

.... staff can't have much to drink the day/evening before they're on duty, although as far as I'm aware this isn't a particular argument for the lack of train services on 25/26 Dec (services run relatively normally on 1 Jan, after all) ....

I would be very worried indeed about anyone who felt the need to get "happy" on his / her days off over Christmas to the extent that it was a serious concern as to whether they would be sober on their next shift.  Surely there are plenty of other shift breaks during the year if they want to drink occasionally. I have to start asking questions about someone who's really that determined that he/she should drink over Christmas - have they a dependency / are they too weakwilled to say to familiy "no, I have to look after the lives of hundreds of people tomorrow", and if either answer is "yes", should they really be in that position?

I think that part of the problem is that the railway take a much stricter view of "sober" than most other industries.
If a railway worker took a modest amount of drink on Christmas day and was required to work on Boxing day, they not only must be "sober" by common sense standards, but must be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that they can pass a railway alcohol test which is much stricter than that for driving a car.
A taxi driver must only be able to pass the usual test administered by the police, a rail worker must AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) have no detectable alcholol in their system.

[JayMac]

Network Rail's alcohol limit for its staff (ALL staff - safety critical or not) is:

13^g of alcohol per 100ml of breath; or
29mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood; or
39mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine.

These are the same limits as proscribed in the Transport and Works Act 1992 for staff working in a safety critical role.

I believe these limits are the same for TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)/FOC^▸ (Freight Operating Company) employees although company wide policy and therefore contractual terms may allow for lower limits and for the limits to apply to all staff whether safety critical or not. My brief time with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) through an agency (non-safety critical) had the TWA 1992 limits and I was tested prior to employment being offered.

These limits usually equate to just 1.5 units of alcohol. That is one 125ml glass of wine at 12% abv. Half a pint of beer/lager/cider at 5% abv or one 35ml measure of spirits at 37.5-40% abv.

For comparison the limits for driving on the road are:

35^g of alcohol in 100ml of breath; or
80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood; or
107mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine.

[TaplowGreen]

Thanks Didcot dean that's very interesting....sorry to see we've gone backwards over the last 40 years though....and fascinating that someone like Ray Buckton was putting the interests of the public over his members...not something he was renowned for as I remember!!!

[TonyK]

Network Rail's alcohol limit for its staff (ALL staff - safety critical or not) is:

13^g of alcohol per 100ml of breath; or
29mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood; or
39mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine.


35^g of alcohol in 100ml of breath; or
80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood; or
107mg of alcohol per 100ml of urine.

To fly an aeroplane either private or commercial, the limit is 20mg per 100ml of blood. "24 hours from bottle to throttle". Incidentally, at least one forum member (me) stayed stone cold sober on 25/12. Mrs FTN has one of those jobs that means occasional holiday work, and needed a lift home at 22.30. I'm not risking my licence on the hope I would get away with it. Party time had to wait for Boxing Day. No problem,

[IndustryInsider]

Good to see Chiltern are trialling a Boxing Day service this year on their Bicester North to Marylebone route:

http://www.bucksherald.co.uk/news/more-news/chiltern-railways-to-trial-boxing-day-trains-1-5586540

They join some of the other South East based TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s which have run them for several years.  Running them from Bicester to Marylebone only means keeping the one signalling centre open, so that is the reason for not running them up to Banbury I presume?  Details don't appear in the online search engines yet.

Hopefully we will soon see the tipping balance where the majority of operators are required/want to operate a Boxing Day service as there are several reasons why they should.  I am saying that as a member of staff who might well be required to work as well!

Perhaps the new 'proper' Greater Western franchise after the current two temporary extensions will include a requirement to do so?

[anthony215]

Good on Chiltern for having a go at such a service. If it does proove to be sucessful then perhaps there could in theory be some services at least on boxing day on parts of the GW^▸ (Great Western) network.

One route sprinsg to mind and that is between London Paddington - Reading - Oxford. The main problems however will be the upgrade work including electrification of the GW network until at least 2018 so I doubt we will see any boxing day services on the GW network for a while, unless of course  reources are available and there is no engineering work going on.

[grahame]

From RailFuture - via http://www.railfuture.org.uk/article1531-Boxing-Day-trains

Several train operators will be running on Boxing Day this year.

Chiltern Railways will be running trains between London Marylebone and Bicester North where there is a designer shopping outlet.

High speed Javelin trains will be running between London St Pancras, Stratford (home to a new shopping centre), Ebbsfleet and Ashford, Kent, where there is another designer shopping centre.

Eurostar will also be running trains to Paris and Brussels.

Gatwick Express and Stansted Express will also run on Boxing Day.

Heathrow Express will be running between the airport terminals but not to Paddington.

Southern is planning to run trains from London Victoria to East Croydon (all stations), Brighton, Gatwick Airport and Sutton.

ScotRail will run a modified service but only in some areas.

In London, the Underground will be running on most lines.

Elsewhere in Britain, travellers who normally rely on trains will have to stay at home or go by bus.

However, some of Britain^s preserved railways, largely operated by volunteers, will be running.

We get a number of interesting phone calls for transport help on the CRP^▸ (Community Rail Partnership) phone line - and if I'm taking those calls I try to help people as best I can, while warning them that I'm just a volunteer for the railway line.   A gentleman today looking for how to get someone from London (Heathrow) to Chippenham for midday; he reported that the National Express site was giving him problems - disappointed when I confirmed no trains, but very thankful to also know to look at Megabus, and to be given a phone number for National Express.   That will be an expensive way to book, but what a fragmented system of "a to b" we have.  Just glad he wasn't looking to get the person to Melksham, Trowbridge or Westbury!

[IndustryInsider]

I remain of the opinion that, come the end of the major electrification and Crossrail work, that any newly let franchise should include a Boxing Day service on the major FGW^▸ (First Great Western) routes.  Centralisation of much of the signalling into the Thames Valley Signalling Centre should also help that to become possible.  It will not be profitable, but then many services aren't, and it will be socially important and will also help to reduce a little the utter swamping of trains that occurs on the 27th December, especially when that falls on a Sunday or Monday.

[grahame]

Elsewhere in Britain, travellers who normally rely on trains will have to stay at home or go by bus.

Chance would, of course, be a fine thing.  Around here there are three bus timetables
- Monday to Friday
- Saturday
- Sunday and Bank Holidays except Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year's Day
and three days in the year when not a bus wheel turns (the absence of a timetable)

A handful of First bus routes (they're the ones I know about) operate in the Bristol / Bath area, but little villages like Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge and Westbury have no public transport, save the odd National Express or Megabus coach.  I'm aware of the arguments about costs, engineering, giving staff the day off, making a loss, etc ... but what a wonderful marketing gift it seems to be to the "private car" lobby - a day when people want to go to sports matches, sales, and to visit friends and family, and they're shown how it can all work without public transport.