Christmas and Boxing Day trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

Gentlemen, please: I'd already indicated that I was taking a particular interest in this topic, by posting in it.

[LiskeardRich]

I think there must be some services boxing day, Many retailers were reporting record sales on boxing day, next were open at 5am on boxing day, even in Cornwall where nothing happens!

[TonyK]

Boxing Day sees many thousands of leisure travellers heading to football games, sales (if you call that leisure), theatres and the like, as well as the people who work at these places. Good reason to run services, then. But local authorities normally relax parking restrictions, and these are not the normal commuting journey, so time is less of the essence to anyone going out. And National Rail see this, and Easter and other Bank Holidays, as a good time for those huge infrastructure jobs that make the difference through the rest of the year. I can't anything changing in that last aspect.

It has been pointed out in the thread about people who work on the permanent (or as Bignosemac called it "Semi-permanent!) way that signal boxes are manned, and the railway is in truth open, albeit without passenger trains. But to run passenger services on the parts unaffected by engineering work would need many more employees than just those driving trains - customer service, ancillary station staff, maintenance staff to name a few. Unions would want premium rates of pay. We would end up with an expensive service over an incomplete network with uncertain and unpredictable passenger numbers. At the pragmatic level, it would not add up.

Unless we all went to work on Boxing Day too, which I don't want.

[ellendune]

Boxing Day sees many thousands of leisure travellers heading to football games, sales (if you call that leisure), theatres and the like, as well as the people who work at these places. Good reason to run services, then. But local authorities normally relax parking restrictions, and these are not the normal commuting journey, so time is less of the essence to anyone going out. And National Rail see this, and Easter and other Bank Holidays, as a good time for those huge infrastructure jobs that make the difference through the rest of the year. I can't anything changing in that last aspect.

It has been pointed out in the thread about people who work on the permanent (or as Bignosemac called it "Semi-permanent!) way that signal boxes are manned, and the railway is in truth open, albeit without passenger trains. But to run passenger services on the parts unaffected by engineering work would need many more employees than just those driving trains - customer service, ancillary station staff, maintenance staff to name a few. Unions would want premium rates of pay. We would end up with an expensive service over an incomplete network with uncertain and unpredictable passenger numbers. At the pragmatic level, it would not add up.

Unless we all went to work on Boxing Day too, which I don't want.

I am inclined to agree

[vacmanfan]

Sadly, I can see this happening in the near future.  Capitalism has taken over Christmas and now people want to shop shop shop!  The need is pretty clear in London, and as London and the South East is massively multi-culutural, a lot of staff of the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) there don't celebrate Christmas and I guess would be more than willing to work? 
Out in the sticks is less warranted.  Take somewhere like Taunton for instance, Boxing Day would see very little footfall and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would need to have Dispatch, Passenger Assistance, Gateline, Booking Office staff all on and being paid enhanced rates.  Can't see it being worth it.

[TaplowGreen]

The argument for a Boxing Day service is compelling...it would be more productive to look for ways in which it could be made to work, rather than for reasons why it can't...every other sector, from hospitals to airports to retail to restaurants seem to manage OK on Boxing Day and staff are expected to work, why should the railways be any different...it should work  according to the demand and for the benefit of the customers it serves...the only viable reason for not doing it I can see is the facility for large scale engineering work which the Xmas window provides...some of the arguments put forward against it ie "I wouldn't be able to drink on Christmas Day if I had to work on Boxing Day" are frankly laughable, and reflect the old style public sector culture of organisations being run for the benefit of those they employ rather than those they serve....I wonder what the guys holding the line in Afghanistan would think of that excuse, and I don't think they get double/treble time and extra days off?

[LiskeardRich]

In response to TaplowGreen, if a contract states bank holidays then that will cover Boxing Day. Legally the only days in a calendar you can refuse to work is Christmas day and Easter Sunday, and to opt out of these you need to provide your refusal in writing at the start of employment with the company I believe.

[Electric train]

why should the railways be any different...it should work  according to the demand and for the benefit of the customers it serves

Not quite true Bank are not expected to be open, a whole rift of customer services departments, local authority offices, Government Departments are not expected to be open, most (large) Constructions site are shut down, lets take the easy option remove its status as Bank / Public Holiday and declare it a normal working day

[LiskeardRich]

why should the railways be any different...it should work  according to the demand and for the benefit of the customers it serves

Not quite true Bank are not expected to be open, a whole rift of customer services departments, local authority offices, Government Departments are not expected to be open, most (large) Constructions site are shut down, lets take the easy option remove its status as Bank / Public Holiday and declare it a normal working day

The Bank Holidays Act 1871 Gives Easter Monday, Whit Monday, First Monday in August and St Stephens Day (Boxing Day I believe???) as being the only bank holidays in law. Good Friday and Christmas day are Public Holidays and dont have the legal standing as a bank holiday and an employment contract quoting bank holidays does not legally cover these public holiday days.

[JayMac]

Small pedantic point. It is now the Banking and Financial Dealings Act 1971. The Bank Holidays Act 1871 was repealed at the time of the introduction of the new Act.

In addition to Easter Monday, last Monday in May, last Monday in August and 26th December*, two additional dates are routinely also Bank Holidays in law. These are New Year's Day** and the first Monday in May. They are giving legal status as Bank Holidays on a yearly basis by Royal Proclamation as allowed for in the 1971 legislation.

*Or 27th/28th if 26th falls on a Saturday/Sunday.
**Or the following Monday if 1st January falls on a Saturday or Sunday.

The point richwarwicker made about the public holidays of Good Friday and Christmas Day is correct. Read that employment contract carefully!

There is no automatic right in law to have a Bank Holiday off work, nor is there any right to enhanced payment. It is purely down to the terms within an employment contract.

[Brucey]

The point richwarwicker made about the public holidays of Good Friday and Christmas Day is correct. Read that employment contract carefully!

*Runs off to check employment contract*

All employees are entitled to 30 days annual leave per annum (in addition to public and
bank holidays) with the "leave year" running from 1st January until 31st December.

Phew.  Had me worried then for a minute!

[Chris from Nailsea]

... First Monday in August ...

... first Monday in August ...

Interesting: I always thought the August bank holiday is the last Monday in August. 

See https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays 

[JayMac]

That's correct Chris. I made the same mistake as richwarwicker. Or rather copied his. 

I've edited my post.

[LiskeardRich]

... First Monday in August ...

... first Monday in August ...

Interesting: I always thought the August bank holiday is the last Monday in August. 

See https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays 

It was the first monday in August until 1965 when it moved to the last monday in August.

[bobm]

...and just to confuse things it is still the first Monday in Scotland...although most branches of the English banks north of the border tend to open that day but close on the last Monday.