Christmas and Boxing Day trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[phile]

I have travelled by train to a Football match on Boxing Day and travelled to and from work on Xmas Day.    If the trains had never been withdrawn on these days nobody would have noticed and just carried on so we wouldn't be having this debate..

[didcotdean]

The services on Christmas Day and Boxing day were cut out to save money. In neither case was it a clear single decision to stop, more a sequence of events. Christmas Day services were run down over a 5 year or so period in the 1960s. A full service on Boxing Day was cancelled first in 1975 when it was a Friday, and came back when Boxing Day was on a Monday. It wasn't until the mid 1980s, the nadir of the rail passenger usage that a full bank holiday style service was finally abandoned.

[IndustryInsider]

Each year the call gets a little louder for a Boxing Day service, the politicians blame each other and the railways get another bashing in the popular press for, on the whole, not providing one.

In my opinion it won't be too long, maybe ten years, before a much more comprehensive service is provided.

[grahame]

Each year the call gets a little louder for a Boxing Day service, the politicians blame each other and the railways get another bashing in the popular press for, on the whole, not providing one ...

indeed ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11313619/Thousands-of-travellers-stranded-as-Boxing-Day-rail-chaos-bites.html

Hundreds of thousands of travellers have been left stranded as the main routes on Britain^s railways shut down for Boxing Day. And angry passengers vented their disbelief and fury on social media, with many forced to take to the roads instead.

The AA warned of traffic chaos and queues in certain areas ^ mainly around shopping centres where people were hoping to take advantage of the usual Boxing Day sales.

And with an estimated one million football fans travelling to the 10 Premier League fixtures scheduled across the country, roads around the sporting venues were expected to be clogged.

Old Trafford, the Emirates Stadium and Goodison Park were among the sports grounds where matches were scheduled.

etc ...

[phile]

Once you remove a service, it's more difficult to re-instate

[JayMac]

Some exaggeration there from the Telegraph. I very much doubt there will be 1 million travelling to 10 Premier League matches. That'd be 100,000 per match. No Premier League ground has capacity anywhere near that. I suspect they meant that there will be 1 million travelling to all league football games today.

[didcotdean]

Once you remove a service, it's more difficult to re-instate

Indeed. A way to go to the 7-day railway, 52 weeks a year ...

[TaplowGreen]

Some exaggeration there from the Telegraph. I very much doubt there will be 1 million travelling to 10 Premier League matches. That'd be 100,000 per match. No Premier League ground has capacity anywhere near that. I suspect they meant that there will be 1 million travelling to all league football games today.

..........and how many will be able to travel anywhere by train?

(to be honest I very much doubt its a million travelling to football matches even if you include all 4 leagues, suspect it includes travelling to sales, to see family, heading home for work etc etc)

[grahame]

..........and how many will be able to travel anywhere by train?

Probably rather more that we think.  I note the Daily Telegraph mentions the Emirates Stadium, which is served by the Underground - running today, and with out-of-town connecting trains too from Ashford, Brighton and Bicester. As Arsenal are playing Queen's Park Rangers, a significant number of fans may be from within the area that this Boxing Day network covers.

Also noted that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are running 4 buses from Reading to Gatwick Airport (according to Real Time Trains) and there are Brighton -> London trains.   Is "via Gatwick" permitted for a Reading to London ticket?

[TaplowGreen]

..........and how many will be able to travel anywhere by train?

Probably rather more that we think.  I note the Daily Telegraph mentions the Emirates Stadium, which is served by the Underground - running today, and with out-of-town connecting trains too from Ashford, Brighton and Bicester. As Arsenal are playing Queen's Park Rangers, a significant number of fans may be from within the area that this Boxing Day network covers.

Also noted that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are running 4 buses from Reading to Gatwick Airport (according to Real Time Trains) and there are Brighton -> London trains.   Is "via Gatwick" permitted for a Reading to London ticket?

It is indeed fortunate that TfL^» (Transport for London - about) are responsive to demand and are running a Boxing Day service for those in London as usual.......not much help to anyone else though?..........I think the focus of this discussion is the shortcomings elsewhere?

It's not all about London.

[phile]

I have read that when in opposition, the Conservative Party were spouting what they would do re re-instating a Boxing Day service but as is usual with politicians forgot about it when they came into power in 2010.

[TaplowGreen]

I have read that when in opposition, the Conservative Party were spouting what they would do re re-instating a Boxing Day service but as is usual with politicians forgot about it when they came into power in 2010.

Usual political p***ing match, but at least it raises the profile of the issue;

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/529536c8-8cf6-11e4-9f52-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3N1HmV1Uc

[ellendune]

A further complication of boxing day trains is the railway's alcohol policy.  As I understand it the limit is 29 mg/l (driving limit in UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is 80). So rail staff must leave significantly more time after drinking before they can work. So its not just about working on boxing day its about what you can drink on Christmas Day as well.

And if the train operator needs staff to volunteer for Boxing Day working then do they think they would get enough staff to work the service. 

The services on Christmas Day and Boxing day were cut out to save money. In neither case was it a clear single decision to stop, more a sequence of events. Christmas Day services were run down over a 5 year or so period in the 1960s. A full service on Boxing Day was cancelled first in 1975 when it was a Friday, and came back when Boxing Day was on a Monday. It wasn't until the mid 1980s, the nadir of the rail passenger usage that a full bank holiday style service was finally abandoned.

I would be interested when the current alcohol limit came in - was it after the mid 1980's?

[TaplowGreen]

A further complication of boxing day trains is the railway's alcohol policy.  As I understand it the limit is 29 mg/l (driving limit in UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is 80). So rail staff must leave significantly more time after drinking before they can work. So its not just about working on boxing day its about what you can drink on Christmas Day as well.

And if the train operator needs staff to volunteer for Boxing Day working then do they think they would get enough staff to work the service. 

I would be interested when the current alcohol limit came in - was it after the mid 1980's?

If you have to work in a safety critical environment you stay within the limits of alcohol consumption whatever day of the year it happens to be - full stop.....it's 100% the responsibility of the individual concerned.

Are you seriously suggesting that the ability of railway staff to stay within these limits should be a factor in a decision whether or not to run a Boxing Day service?

[ellendune]

If you have to work in a safety critical environment you stay within the limits of alcohol consumption whatever day of the year it happens to be - full stop.....it's 100% the responsibility of the individual concerned.

Of course absolutely!

Are you seriously suggesting that the ability of railway staff to stay within these limits should be a factor in a decision whether or not to run a Boxing Day service?

No - think rather more highly of them than that. What I am saying is that if we want people to work on the railway on boxing day then in order to stay within the limits  we would be denying them the opportunity to do what many people like to do on Christmas Day.  Railway staff are ordinary people like the rest of us. 

Since at the moment (as I understand it) staff are asked to volunteer for bank holiday working, this might limit the number who are prepared to volunteer.