172s for FGW

[whole diary]

[TJ]

If FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are allowed to obtain the 11 x 4 car 172s that they wish to run on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route and also retain their existing DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) fleet (as is their conditional desire), how will this affect fleet deployment in the South West?

TJ

[gaf71]

Where are the 172's coming from?

[tramway]

Not a lot of info out there but there is a little bit about it on the West of England website

I should really have looked a bit further before I wrote the above, but came across a letter from the SWRDA^» (South West Regional Development Agency - about) to Ruth Kelly specifically proposing brand new trains for the route, although it seems to imply they would come from the '1300' already proposed. (Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere).

Interesting on the WoEP site that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are putting forward a business case, whether along the same lines as proposed by the SWRDA I don't know.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

A Class 172 Turbostar will have fewer seats than a Class 150 Sprinter it replaces[1] (e.g. a three-car 150/1 has 35 more seats than a three-car 172/3) but greater overall capacity due to the increased room for standing passengers as well as wider aisles intended to speed boarding and reduce time in stations.

The trains will be air conditioned and contain no openable windows, as opposed to the Class 150.
......

......so were just cattle now?

[r james]

I do wonder however, if getting some 172 units would infact mean that a small number of the 158s which are being cascaded being transfered tp EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about), thus solving overall capacity problems for everyone??

Say FGW^▸ (First Great Western) keep 6 of the cascaded 158s, and the other 5 go to EMT, everything is solved. 

[Btline]

A Class 172 Turbostar will have fewer seats than a Class 150 Sprinter it replaces[1] (e.g. a three-car 150/1 has 35 more seats than a three-car 172/3) but greater overall capacity due to the increased room for standing passengers as well as wider aisles intended to speed boarding and reduce time in stations.

The trains will be air conditioned and contain no openable windows, as opposed to the Class 150.
......

......so were just cattle now?

This is going to be a problem on LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)'s Snow Hill Lines services. 30 fewer seats AND they are ordering fewer carriages! Commuters will be like sardines.

But it is good news about the windows / air con!

[vacman]

I don't think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have actually mentioned what class of unit they intend to order for FGW's services, they are also planning to obtain new trains for LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley)........ lets hope they go for 185's

[John R]

I don't think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have actually mentioned what class of unit they intend to order for FGW's services, they are also planning to obtain new trains for LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley)........ lets hope they go for 185's

WIll any ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) contemplate buying a large amount of stock for a route that is highly likely to be electrified in the next decade (LTV that is.)?

[devon_metro]

Could they not replace all stock in Bristol and Devon/Cornwall when no longer on Thames Valley?

[IndustryInsider]

I don't think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have actually mentioned what class of unit they intend to order for FGW's services, they are also planning to obtain new trains for LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley)........ lets hope they go for 185's

The L&TV units will surely have to be compatible with the present 165/6 fleet for coupling purposes? I would suggest that they will be a Turbostar, probably a variant of the 172 with appropriate coupling modifications, or they will get cascaded 165's from Chiltern when they receive their on-order new vehicles in the next couple of years. Cascaded units probably make more sense than new builds as the present turbo fleet will lose around 50% of its current work when Crossrail opens.

[r james]

They should just be allowed to order 172s to meet thier full requirements, then leave it there.  Nothing more.

I suspect however its unlikely this will ever be approved. 

[Btline]

There should be a continual building programme of 172s that needs to be running until all non plug door/ non air con units / buses have been sent to the scrap yard.

Then there would be a Universal UK^▸ (United Kingdom) wide DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) semi fast/local fleet.

But that is far too sensible, so lets keep the Sprinters and Pacers!

[devon_metro]

The problem with that is that they all reach life expiry at the same time.

[Zoe]

Then there would be a Universal UK^▸ (United Kingdom) wide DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) semi fast/local fleet.

Not quite, Northern Ireland would still have different units.

[eightf48544]

I don't think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have actually mentioned what class of unit they intend to order for FGW's services, they are also planning to obtain new trains for LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley)........ lets hope they go for 185's

The L&TV units will surely have to be compatible with the present 165/6 fleet for coupling purposes? I would suggest that they will be a Turbostar, probably a variant of the 172 with appropriate coupling modifications, or they will get cascaded 165's from Chiltern when they receive their on-order new vehicles in the next couple of years. Cascaded units probably make more sense than new builds as the present turbo fleet will lose around 50% of its current work when Crossrail opens.

I don't think Chiltern will be too keen to cascade 165/0s to FGW. Their plan is to rengine all their 165s and 168 to the same as the 172 to match their performance this is to get a 90 minute timing to Moor Street. Also if teh Oxford service gets off the ground then they will need all teh units they've got.

As has been agreed elesewhere that it will be a long time before most of the FGW is electrified a fleet of 172s for the West of England to replace Buses and 150s and provide more capacity would be a sound idea. That's why it's not going to happen.