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Author Topic: SNAFU on the Cotswold line this morning (10/11/08)  (Read 6379 times)
IanL
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« on: November 10, 2008, 08:44:52 »

(Apologies but in this description I give Charlbury timings rather than starting point timings)

Situation on arrival at Charlbury station for the 0724 train to Oxford and paddington, looks like the 0712 to
Worcester was 15 late (unknown reasons) at Oxford, expected Charlbury 0737 and is being held at Wolvercote as the
0724 is already on the single line running approx 5 late. However the 0724 is obviously attempting to make up time and clear the single line as it comes into view it is obvious that it is running very fast and indeed fails to make the platform stop, finishing with the rear powercar on the Oxford end platform ramp. 10 minutes to change direction and reverse train, 5 min to load passengers and start off again, eventually passing the stationary 0712 HST (High Speed Train) at Wolvercote, eventually arrived oxford approx 15 min late.

Guard gave excuse of railhead conditions at Charlbury but frankly a lot of passengers did not believe this for a number of reasons, absolutely no evidence or leaves on the line or ballast within sight of the platform, no appreciable delay until this event, no problems after this event. Rails damp but temp well above freezing.

Interestingly the knock on effect of this was that a subsequent Worcesterbound train was terminated at Oxford and the 0938 train to Paddington (0837 from Worcester) was started from Oxford, however FGW (First Great Western) gives on their webpages rather different excuses:

06:00 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street due 09:26
This train will be terminated at Oxford.It will no longer call at: Kingham, Moreton-In-Marsh, Honeybourne, Evesham, Pershore, Worcester Shrub Hill and Worcester Foregate Street.This is due to signalling problems.

08:37 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 10:59
This train will be started from Oxford.It will no longer call at: Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill, Pershore, Evesham, Honeybourne, Moreton-In-Marsh, Kingham, Charlbury and Hanborough.This train will run short formed with 3 carriages.This is due to an earlier broken down train.



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dog box
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 10:18:21 »

Well Ian you obviously no absolutely nothing about Train Operations on The Cotswold line other wise you would be fully conversant that Charlbury from Milepost 75.6 chains and Milepost 77 is a know area of low rail adhesion at all times as other numerous other areas in that location.
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Electric train
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 12:44:24 »

The leaves actually being on the line are not the problem. As the leaves die the secrete sap which gets on the rail head this combined with moisture either dew at this time of year or rail makes one of mother natures best ever lubricant.  Rail head conditioning such as sandite which will have been done even an hour before a train passes can be washed off by rain.
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
IanL
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2008, 14:39:34 »

Thank you Dogbox and Electric train, I bow to your better knowledge of rail conditions in the Charlbury area. Perhaps it was rail head conditions affecting train braking.

It remains however that FGW (First Great Western) are (in not only my eyes) that FGW are stretching their credibility, firstly publicly announcing two different reasons for altering trains, secondly the affected train didnt seem to have experienced problems anywhere elsewhere on the line as it was running approximately to time until this point and if it had been experiencing problems earlier it might have taken a more cautious approach to a 'well known area of low rail adhesion'.

Lastly this is not the first or second but the third time this has happened in my experience of the last few years, one in summer (dry and sunny), one in (spring warm and dry but overcast)  and today.

I have been on a train that managed to pull in alongside the platform and struggled to pull away due to wheels slipping, this train did not have this problem.
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dog box
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 16:48:51 »

driving a train in these conditions is very tricky, a bit too much brake and it will all lock up very easily,think your opinion of differing excuses for the same problem is a little cynical but without knowing headcodes its a bit hard to find out what actually did happen.
The other low rail adhesion areas are 69.40 to 72 Handborough, 74.20 to75.40 between Combe and Finstock,and 80.60 and 82.00 between Ascott and Shipton.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 17:03:36 »

Late trains I can see:
1W07
1P14
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johoare
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 20:01:48 »

Well that probably also explains why my train (9.04 from Maidenhead to Paddington, but starts at Banbury a lot earlier and passes through Oxford at 7.57) was running on time to Oxford and then was suddenly over 20 minutes late...
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 21:15:51 »

Late trains I can see:
1W07
1P14

What are these in time terms?
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 21:33:01 »

(Apologies but in this description I give Charlbury timings rather than starting point timings)

Situation on arrival at Charlbury station for the 0724 train to Oxford and paddington, looks like the 0712 to
Worcester was 15 late (unknown reasons) at Oxford, expected Charlbury 0737 and is being held at Wolvercote as the
0724 is already on the single line running approx 5 late. However the 0724 is obviously attempting to make up time and clear the single line as it comes into view it is obvious that it is running very fast and indeed fails to make the platform stop, finishing with the rear powercar on the Oxford end platform ramp. 10 minutes to change direction and reverse train, 5 min to load passengers and start off again, eventually passing the stationary 0712 HST (High Speed Train) at Wolvercote, eventually arrived oxford approx 15 min late.

Guard gave excuse of railhead conditions at Charlbury but frankly a lot of passengers did not believe this for a number of reasons, absolutely no evidence or leaves on the line or ballast within sight of the platform, no appreciable delay until this event, no problems after this event. Rails damp but temp well above freezing.

Interestingly the knock on effect of this was that a subsequent Worcesterbound train was terminated at Oxford and the 0938 train to Paddington (0837 from Worcester) was started from Oxford, however FGW (First Great Western) gives on their webpages rather different excuses:

06:00 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street due 09:26
This train will be terminated at Oxford.It will no longer call at: Kingham, Moreton-In-Marsh, Honeybourne, Evesham, Pershore, Worcester Shrub Hill and Worcester Foregate Street.This is due to signalling problems.

08:37 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 10:59
This train will be started from Oxford.It will no longer call at: Worcester Foregate Street, Worcester Shrub Hill, Pershore, Evesham, Honeybourne, Moreton-In-Marsh, Kingham, Charlbury and Hanborough.This train will run short formed with 3 carriages.This is due to an earlier broken down train.

I agree the webpages weren't too accurate, but I was caught up in this mornings problems myself - and just to indicate how things can go wrong; The first down train suffered a train fault in the Slough area - the driver received a warning of a locked axle (which could be quite serious) - following investigation it was found to be spurious and probably caused by excessive wheelslip en-route. As a result of this the train arrived Oxford about 20 mins late and the decision was made to hold it at Wolvercote to allow the up HST through the single line. It would then terminate at Evesham to form the back working from there at 09:01.

After it had arrived at Wolvercote the incident involving the Charlbury overrun happened. I'm sure relevant people are observing a download to see whether the driver or conditions were at fault - all I can say is that ALL routes were prone to slipping today due to the severe winds and heavy rain - advice was sent out to all drivers about the situation at Charlbury following the overrun.

That meant the down HST was sat at Wolvercote for nearly 30 minutes and as a consequence was nearly an hour late. The plan then changed and it ran through to Worcester to work the following train back (usually the turbo) pretty much on time. That was a sensible decision based on how events turned out, but meant the cancellation of the 08:37 until Oxford.

So, the 08:37 Worcester-Paddington train being described as cancelled due to an earlier broken down train was, depending how you interpret it, accurate. Had the locked axle fault not happened, that train would have passed through the single line before the other service that had the problem at Charlbury, and ran on time to Worcester.

It just goes to show that there might be more than meets the eye sometimes.
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
IanL
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 09:35:33 »

My apologies to Industry Insider and Dogbox for my cynicism but I have suffered far too many delays and cancellations in the last few weeks, all to many accompanied by incorrect or inadequate information from staff and the information screens. eg very late running 1731 trains from Oxford to Worcester, cancelled (twice in last week) 1816 Oxford to Hereford, late running 1855 (after cancelled train) Oxford to Worcester.

Granted some of the above were not directly caused by FGW (First Great Western), but FGWs management of the situation has been very poor.

After a vast improvement during the summer the Cotswold line does seem to be reverting to type. Unfortunately I have a feeling about the effect the new timetable will have.


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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2008, 12:59:53 »

It's been a very bad month so far. Just goes to show that papering over the cracks can only do so much. The good news is with all the heavy winds over the last couple of weeks at least the leaf-fall season will finish early!
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Electric train
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2008, 16:47:18 »

It's been a very bad month so far. Just goes to show that papering over the cracks can only do so much. The good news is with all the heavy winds over the last couple of weeks at least the leaf-fall season will finish early!
And then we'll be into the frozen points season
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 18:33:56 »

It's been a very bad month so far. Just goes to show that papering over the cracks can only do so much. The good news is with all the heavy winds over the last couple of weeks at least the leaf-fall season will finish early!
And then we'll be into the frozen points season

True. Though I don't remember a proper 'winter' in about 15 years down south - all thanks to the northerly position of the jet stream in recent years the boffins say!
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2008, 18:52:30 »

To be honest, even if we had a 20 degree winter, FGW (First Great Western) would still use frozen points as an excuse!
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2008, 21:15:57 »

True. Though I don't remember a proper 'winter' in about 15 years down south - all thanks to the northerly position of the jet stream in recent years the boffins say!
Yep that sounds about right. Can't remember the last really decent snowfall here in the West Country. Winter after winter seems to pass us by without us seeing any real snow.
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