Western Rail Access To Heathrow (WRATH) - merged topics

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

it did strike me as odd that the queen might have to put up with that racket every couple of minutes!

My understanding is that when the Queen is in residence aircraft are diverted away from Windsor.

Really?

Does Brenda really have the power to divert the hundreds of flights in and out of Heathrow on a day to day basis? Does she pay for the Air Traffic Control diversions that would be necessary to ensure that there are no flights over Windsor Castle when she's in residence?

Does the Govt. make a telephone call to southern England ATC^▸ (Automatic Train Control) informing them that HMQ will be bedding down at Windsor Castle and asking kindly if they wouldn't mind diverting flights so that Brenda won't be disturbed?

I think not.

[eightf48544]

As i can see the flight path over Windsor I can assure you it makes no difference if she is residence or not. It depends on the wind nd what way they are landing.

It is when they are landing from the West when it is most noticeble as they start coming off the stacks over Maidenhead and as far out as Woodley and then form an orderley queue 3 miles apart. Not quite over the castle but along side it. I can often see three or more planes in line coming in to land.

Take off to the West is not a problem they either fly North over my house or turn South over Staines avoiding the Castle.

The Normal flight pattern with a Westerly wind or very light winds is in over London and out as I say over my house. Althiough that changes depending on if they are using the Burnham Beacon.

[Tim]

It's definitely also usable as a runway though, it would be used if the main runway was undergoing maintenance.

Runway Length 26L/08R: 3316m x 46m
Runway Length 26R/08L: 2565m x 45m - this runway used only when 26L/08R is not available.
http://www.ukaccs.info/profiles.htm

The 'no 2nd runway' rule runs until August 2019.

Paul

It is used when the main runway is undergoing maintenance.  There was a problem a few months ago where the planned maintenance meant that the secondary runway was being used and un-seasonal fog reduced capacity on the secondary runway (which lacks all the instruments required for landing in fog)

[Btline]

Out of interest, is there a website with maps of the flightpaths?

Apparently, they have to be very careful, as Heathrow landing planes fly over City airport!

[TonyK]

Out of interest, is there a website with maps of the flightpaths?

Apparently, they have to be very careful, as Heathrow landing planes fly over City airport!

All the information is in the in the Aeronautical Information Service website. This chart shows, for example, how the aircraft leave the stacks at Biggin Hill or Ockenham to follow the approach path to line up to land on runways 09L or 09R. At the point on the chart marked I-AA D10 or I-BB D10, about 6 miles west of Windsor, the aircraft descend to 2500 feet, on a 3 degree glidepath. I reckon that puts them below 1500' as they pass a mile or so south of the Castle. Inbound flights are generally quieter than outgoing flights. For the latter, noise abatement procedures are in place, as described by eightf48455, although probably won't make much difference  to Her Majesty. The change  of runway in use during the day helps to spread the misery, and give some relief. Modern aircraft, with high bypass engines, are much quieter than their predecessors. Flights arrive and depart into the wind, which dictates the direction. The prevailing wind is from the west, although in fine weather it tends to be from the east. This, more than anything, shows why Heathrow is in the wrong place, as all flights arrive or depart over London. Paris has its major airports north and south of Paris, giving a lot less flying over heavily populated areas.

Being careful over City airport is a bit of a red herring. Pilots are careful everywhere as a rule. Heathrow is in Category A airspace, and you are not allowed in there without an air traffic controller directing your every move. City airport is in Category D airspace. That is controlled to a lesser extent, but you cannot enter the zone without clearance. There are standard instrument arrival and departure procedures for each airport, designed to keep the aircraft at a safe distance from each other. You need not be alarmed, someone has thought about this. If you flew directly down the runway at London City, with no control inputs or wind, you would pass over Heathrow and Filton.

During the current sports event in London, just about everywhere east of Oxford is being treated as one big control zone, with the threat of being joined by a Eurofighter or getting a missile up the jacksie if you don't do what you are told.[/THREADDRIFT]

[Surrey 455]

Heathrow landing planes fly over City airport!

If you look at the live flights map at http://www.flightradar24.com/ you'll often see a Ryanair or other flight flying north over Heathrow on it's way from Europe to Stansted or other airports. They're at a much higher altitude though.

In the following screenshot I didn't have time to wait for this to happen but here's a Stansted bound plane flying over Hounslow. It's the red plane.
Sometimes I can watch this site for an hour or so clicking on each plane to see where it's going.

[JayMac]

Virtual planespotting. I like it!!!

Can we have similar for National Rail please? I know there's a TfL^» (Transport for London - about) train tracking site as well one for services operated by East Coast, but UK^▸ (United Kingdom) wide would be cool.

[TonyK]

If you look at the live flights map at http://www.flightradar24.com/ you'll often see a Ryanair or other flight flying north over Heathrow on it's way from Europe to Stansted or other airports. They're at a much higher altitude though.

Which is no accident. Passenger jets follow clearly defined airways when under control of a traffic controller - the one over Heathrow is designated L9, and is 10 NM wide. Altitude depends on direction. Above FL 245 (which is 24500' with altimeter set to 1013.25 HPa, so that all the big boys measure height the same way), flights with a magnetic track between 0 and 179 degrees fly at odd numbered levels, 180 to 359 degrees at even numbers. Routing flights via large airports makes for great visual reference points, plus radio beacons and radar service, and somewhere with emergency facilities to glide to land if everything goes quiet unexpectedly.

[Btline]

Wow - what an amazing website! Thanks for sharing. Now I'll know what planes fly over my house at 30,000 ft leaving streaks (but thankfully no noise, so presumably at 30,000 ft)

- although it's made me feel sorry for those living near Heathrow as a Quantas jet has just taken off at 11.45pm eastbound flying right over South West London. Not fair for residents trying to sleep.

[Rhydgaled]

Virtual planespotting. I like it!!!

Can we have similar for National Rail please? I know there's a TfL^» (Transport for London - about) train tracking site as well one for services operated by East Coast, but UK^▸ (United Kingdom) wide would be cool.

I've not heard about an East Coast train-tracking site. Is it like the aircraft site posted just above where it gives the type of aircraft (for East Coast I'm thinking does it identify which trains are IC125s and which are IC225s, and whether they are short-formed/in reverse formation and things like that)?

[JayMac]

The East Coast map only features one train, that has been fitted with a GPS tracker. The headcode for whatever service (timetabled or ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock)) the set is on is included:

http://bbarker.co.uk/eastCoast/

Currently shacked up for the night at Heaton TMD^▸ (Traction Maintenance Depot).

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Reading Chronicle:

Shadow transport secretary Maria Eagle says the ambitious ^500m western rail link to Heathrow is key to rejuvenating the British economy.

The senior Labour MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) welcomed the plans when she visited Reading last Wednesday to host a party policy forum canvassing supporters' views on transport services ahead of creating a blueprint for the party's 2015 election manifesto.

Speaking before the meeting at the Cornwell Centre in Tilehurst, the MP for Liverpool's Garston and Halewood constituency said: "It's sensible increasing connectivity to Heathrow. Airports and other transport centres are an important way of increasing economic growth and we are supportive of it."

By 2021, the proposed Western Rail Access to Heathrow (WRAtH^▸ (Western Rail Access to Heathrow)) will provide direct rail services from Reading to the airport, slashing journey times to 28 minutes.

Companies in this area spend up to ^10m annually on taxi fares to Heathrow because train travellers face either face a lengthy detour through London or catching Rail Air link buses from Reading Station which take 40 minutes to complete the road journey.

The rail link, backed by the Thames Valley Berkshire Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP^» (Local Enterprise Partnership - about)), would serve Reading with four trains every hour, with two services calling at Maidenhead and Twyford and options include building a tunnel linking the Western Mainline east of Langley with platforms already built at Terminal 5.

Ms Eagle who also met Reading West electoral candidate Victoria Groulef, warned spiralling rail fares and Government plans for 'super peak' tickets - which could see passengers paying more to travel at the busiest times in an attempt to reduce overcrowding - are taking their toll on passengers and added: "There are hard pressed commuters in Reading trying to get to work and they can't take much more of a squeeze. They are seeing their cost of living going up and fares going up."

[stebbo]

What if they decide to close Heathrow (unlikely, I know)? Surely the decision on the western link should follow the decision on the airport's location? Which says, hurry up and get on with it.

[ellendune]

Mind you a taxi from Swindon is cheaper than the Train via Paddington & HEX full fare!

[swrural]

Is there market analysis on Heathrow pax market from the west country?  We have existing Reading Link data (somebody has).  All I remember is that in the analysis of the West Coast traffic to Heathrow, it was estimated at 10% of the total flow to the London area.  That resulted in the Lord Malwhinney recommendation not to send HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) to Heathrow but to stop off at OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) (and then just some of the services).

I find it difficult to envisage that flows from the GW^▸ (Great Western) area would justify a better link than that which failed to be feasible from the North West.