Western Rail Access To Heathrow (WRATH) - merged topics

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

This is all wild speculation;  does anyone have a demographics map showing Heathrow's traveller catchment (UK^▸ (United Kingdom) based) or destinations (from afar).

This may be of some use:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/5/Catchment%20area%20analysis%20working%20paper%20-%20FINAL.pdf

There is definitely a market for direct rail services to Heathrow from points west. Currently, if you want a direct journey by public transport your only option is National Express, who provide regular scheduled coach services, from many towns and cities, to Heathrow.

[TonyK]

There is definitely a market for direct rail services to Heathrow from points west. Currently, if you want a direct journey by public transport your only option is National Express, who provide regular scheduled coach services, from many towns and cities, to Heathrow.

Don't ever mention National Express to Heathrow in my presence again! Please - it brings back memories that my psychiatrist said should lie undisturbed.

I agree there is a market. It's not just Bristol, remember, but Oxford, Swindon, Wales, Gloucester - a big list of frequent flyers. I thought ^500 million was steep, even by normal railway standards, but it's not just a right-turn onto the HEx track.

[Electric train]

There are a couple of options, divert a Maidenhead (or if it happens Reading) Crossrail service via Heathrow, the HEX could be extended to Reading a Padd - Heathow - Reading shuttle.

On an aside the passive provision for an ac / dc interface at Reading is being actively looked at (again) so the Western access could be Reading via Staines ^500m don't buy much new railway nowadays

[Btline]

Just have a decent fast service (perhaps one or two stops) from Reading to Heathrow every 15 or 30 minutes. Connections at Reading.

Plus a stopping service from Reading to Heathrow for locals.

Instead of changing for a bus to the airport, change for a train.

Post "Airtrack Lite", Woking can also become a "change for fast service to Heathrow" station.

[eightf48544]

Unfortunately between the competing interests of Crossrail, Hex, Heathrow Connect and the current local TV^▸ (Thames Valley, or TeleVision, depending on context) semis and stoppers from Reading and now the possibility of od Reading LHR service the likely patern of services on the line is getting really messy.

It seems to me somebody (but who?) should sit down and paln a proper servcie taking into account the new western junction.

Firstly the turnback sidings for Crossrail at Maidenhead should be scrapped and Crossrail run to Reading as soon as it comes out of the tunnel at Royal Oak (2019). After all the lines should should be electrified by 2016. Further Crossrail should not be given the Relief lines it should be a 4 railway throughout to Didcot. They should also pick up the Newbury and Oxfords  (reading and Slough) which currently run Mainline.

Connect is scrapped and runs through to at least all stations Slough possibly Reading.

How about Hex becoming part of Crossrail 4 trians an hour fast Eastbourne Terrace LHR?

The trouble is that there is no boedy with teh authority to say right this is the plan.

This is another of my rocks in a pond ideas. Can you improve the ripples. Otherwise after 2020 the local services in the TV are going to be a mess. Pity the passengers of Twyford and Maidenhead only having an all stations to Shenfield  train via LHr.   
   

[paul7575]

Connect is scrapped and runs through to at least all stations Slough possibly Reading.

How about Hex becoming part of Crossrail 4 trians an hour fast Eastbourne Terrace LHR?

The trouble is that there is no body with the authority to say right this is the plan.
  

Yes there is someone with the authority to make that plan. 

Crossrail already replaces HConnect, this has always been part of the deal.  NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s  London and SE RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) further does propose HEx becoming part of Crossrail, as part of its GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) capacity strategy. 

All it takes is DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to agree that BAA/HAL can be bought out of their existing deal.  That won't be easy, but it is the plan.

Paul

[paul7575]

There are a couple of options, divert a Maidenhead (or if it happens Reading) Crossrail service via Heathrow, the HEX could be extended to Reading a Padd - Heathow - Reading shuttle.

On an aside the passive provision for an ac / dc interface at Reading is being actively looked at (again) so the Western access could be Reading via Staines ^500m don't buy much new railway nowadays

I think ultimately they'll need both, ie there needs to be a junction immediately west of T5 with trains going both to Staines and to the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) (by one of the routes you posted earlier from the CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) proposals). I'm not sure the 'Airtracl' level of infrastructure is needed at Staines, it seems to me that when it comes to suburban EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) a reversal during a station call is no big deal, and if Staines station was rebuilt to provide a third platform on the up side, trains to/from the Virginia Water direction could reverse at Staines in the middle road without much conflict at all...

Paul 

[IndustryInsider]

Should we even look further out of the bag - at where people want to go from Heathrow, and forward much of the 15 years of the next franchise?   Where do people who fly into Heathrow want to go?   Let's see ... Southampton for a cruise.   So - Heathrow - Reading - Winchester - Southmapton - Bournemouth hourly.   The North and Cambridge - so Heathrow - Reading - Oxford - Bicester - Bletchley - Bedford - [Sandy, Cambridge, Norwich] hourly.  And Heathrow - Reading - Leamington Spa - Coventry - Birmingham - Stoke - Manchester hourly.  

There's an awful lot of potential destinations, but bear in mind that the Heathrow Tunnels are not passed for anything other than overhead electric trains though.

[ChrisB]

Crossrail already replaces HConnect, this has always been part of the deal.  NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s  London and SE RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) further does propose HEx becoming part of Crossrail, as part of its GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) capacity strategy.

I knew I had read that somewhere. HEX's life as a standalone entity has a limited life. I believe their contract with NR for services has a date limit of something like 2018.

All it takes is DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to agree that BAA/HAL can be bought out of their existing deal.  That won't be easy, but it is the plan.

See above - I understand that their contract is time-limited.

Not sure if the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) are speculating - or whether they got more info, but they seem to think there will be direct services from the west....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18817874#TWEET172297

[mjones]

Scrapping HEX as a separate service would make much better use of track and platform capacity. As currently planned Crossrail will leave a lot of local trains still terminating from the West while adding a whole lot more terminating from the East, which rather seems to undermine the purpose of creating a new through route at vast expense! There may be some concern about increased journey time if non-stop HEX services are replaced with stopping Crossrail ones, but for such a relatively short trip the greatly increased frequency, leading to reduced waiting times, and reduced need for interchange should more than compensate in terms of what transport modellers call 'Generalised Time'.

[grahame]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/5/Catchment%20area%20analysis%20working%20paper%20-%20FINAL.pdf

Ah yes - thanks

Page 36 - Heathrow Catchment (2010) - significant hottest spots outside the London area are Swindon, Bristol, Birmingham, Nottingham, Cambridge, Southampton, Portsmouth and  Bournemouth.

Page 55 - Foreign residents often travel for quite a long time from Heathrow; contrast to shorter journeys to LHR for UK^▸ (United Kingdom) residents on page 54.

I'm thinking that 4 an hour from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to LHR - electric trains on to Bournmeouth, Birmingham, Cambridge and Bristol might do rather nicely in the (far?) future.  Journey times on areas where there are clear passenger flows already would be cut anyway, and I think that newcomers to the UK would much prefer a slighly slower train than having to change?

Once you get to Reading, you're probably NOT looking at new trains to Bournemouth nor Birmingham.   Think about what already reverses there TWICE an hour, and look at carrying one on to Paddington

[stebbo]

The bigger issue here is surely whether the Government wishes (has the balls?) to look at airport capacity in the South East. If you were to build a new London airport in the Thames then why build a new link to Heathrow?

To my mind - as I've just written to my MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) - the logical answer is to expand Heathrow so, yes, build the western link. But the Government needs to get a grip on the airport issue first.

[paul7575]

For all the other options they talk about, Heathrow itself isn't ever likely to close is it? 

I can foresee a situation where Heathrow is just dealing with cross Atlantic & South American traffic, and 'some other place' is taking over most routes to the east.

Aren't there are also far too many freight shipping businesses around Heathrow to move them all somewhere else?

Paul

[Electric train]

I agree I cannot see the day when Heathrow is cleared for housing, the Heathrow economic foot print is to large for any Government to risk.

My thoughts on a service from the west would be HEX extended to Reading - Paddington - Heathrow - Reading "fast" possibly every 3 per hour with a Maidenhead (or Reading) Crossrail via Heathrow 2 per hour.  It has to born in mind that BAA own the infrastructure from Airport Junction and set the fares so for anyone wanting to get off of a Crossrail service at Heathrow they would have to pay the "BAA surcharge"

The other thing to take into the equation is "Airtrack lite" this would take up capacity in Heathrow (the project does have legs, the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Route are doing feasibility studies), Airtrack lite I recall from an earlier post / thread has been included in the GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise (I could be wrong)

[paul7575]

The other thing to take into the equation is "Airtrack lite" this would take up capacity in Heathrow (the project does have legs, the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Route are doing feasibility studies), Airtrack lite I recall from an earlier post / thread has been included in the GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise (I could be wrong)

It was, and I think there was a a few people wondering why that was at the time the consultation came out. 

It does makes sense to mention it if at some time in the next franchise it was up and running in conjunction with Western Access.  You could see two types of services over Airtrack lite; maybe from Crossrail as far as Staines and terminating there, and other overlapping services from the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) network such as Reading that ran only to Heathrow.

Things in neighbouring areas seem to be mentioned in ITTs^▸ (Invitation to Tender) even if they are nothing much to do with the franchise in question's future operations. I assume it is if they might impact on future fares revenue, even if only slightly.

Paul