Loco hauled

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Why do ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) suddenly need their five 150s back?

Success of the Valley lines, Ebbw Vale and half hourly Merthyrs etc. Plus is it their 158s that are going for ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) to be fitted for the Cambrian?

[G.Uard]

150/1s or not, (and I believe not), 5 143s are bound for Exeter, two to return on a daily basis for the SVB line. (Hence the loco hauled set). The ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) units are also due to return to the land of song, which will leave a large hole.  Apart from the undesirability of reducing 3 car 158s, these units are inherently unsuitable for intensive suburban use, as  despite their 90mph top speed, they have no intermediate doors, which makes for slow boarding/exits.  The 'good' news is that the 2 x 150/1s currently shuffling about the system will be staying.

[MikeGTN]

On paper I'd agree that 158s aren't suitable for suburban work, but an interesting case is 2C83 1600 CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-TAU^» (Taunton - next trains). This was, by Andrew Haines admission, one of FGWs^▸ (First Great Western) worst performing trains for some time. The reason appeared were the boarding times of the sheer weight of passengers, particularly at Bristol TM^‡(resolve). Since a switch to regular 3-car 158/9, however it was clear that the run between Severn Tunnel Jcn and Bristol TM was also a source of delay.

The additional capacity, extra doors and better performance on the long non-stop stretch has brought 2C83 back to some semblance of normality over the past month or two, but when something deputises for a 158/9 the delays return. Perhaps what I'm trying to say is that because of the way the current timetable is built, there are very few purely suburban routes at all.

[The SprinterMeister]

Anyhow, this has been confirmed by First Great Western

I've read that elsewhere too - but haven't seen it confirmed by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) anywhere yet.

Trust me. This is going to happen. 

[The SprinterMeister]

why not use 67 and 4 coaches on exmouth-paighton? after all that would free up two trains per trip (double pacers) and also ease over crowding

I don't think Network Rail want class 67's running on routes that are less than RA8. Taunton - Cardiff is RA10 throughout.

[devon_metro]

why not use 67 and 4 coaches on exmouth-paighton? after all that would free up two trains per trip (double pacers) and also ease over crowding

Far too many stops on that route, not to mention the maul of people trying to get through one door at Exeter Central!

[vacman]

why not use 67 and 4 coaches on exmouth-paighton? after all that would free up two trains per trip (double pacers) and also ease over crowding

Far too many stops on that route, not to mention the maul of people trying to get through one door at Exeter Central!

Would make more sense to use LHS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Stock) on some of the Cornish diagrams!

[Btline]

What's LHS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Stock)?

The sooner the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 172s arrive, the better for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (despite their "clapped out" state)!

[Chris from Nailsea]

What's LHS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Stock)?

Locomotive Hauled Stock  (I think - but I'm no expert! )

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

well network rail would be ok with locos from st davids to paignton as it already happens im not sure about to exmouth you may have a point to to me 4 carrages with two doors on each side total of 8 and the guard can walk all the way threw the train sounds better than two pacers coupled together guare can only be in one at a time and only 6 doors......

[The SprinterMeister]

What's LHS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Stock)?

I believe its one of the smaller Bristol built bus chassis.

The sooner the LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 172s arrive, the better for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (despite their "clapped out" state)!

The Locomotive and coaches option does have some merit. Ideally however you need a formation that can be driven from either end. DVT^‡(resolve)'s or DBSO^▸ (Driving Brake Standard Open (carriage)) is needed to maximise productivity and minimise faffing around trying to run round at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and places like that.

[TheLastMinute]

The Locomotive and coaches option does have some merit. Ideally however you need a formation that can be driven from either end. DVT^‡(resolve)'s or DBSO^▸ (Driving Brake Standard Open (carriage)) is needed to maximise productivity and minimise faffing around trying to run round at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) and places like that.

That's why it would run "Top and Tail" (i.e. a 67 each end.)

It's also cheaper to drag a second loco around on the back of the train all day rather than pay for a shunter when running round. Says a lot about today's railway!

TLM

[vacman]

The ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) unit's are not going back in December, 3 are to return to Wales in May, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have just been given the 6 month notice to return 3 of them.

[Timmer]

The ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) unit's are not going back in December, 3 are to return to Wales in May, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have just been given the 6 month notice to return 3 of them.

Thanks for the update Vacman. I remember that there was an agreement that ATW had to give FGW notice before they had to be returned.

Any chance any LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s will be available by next May? Five 142s are still leaving in December so that will leave FGW with even less rolling stock once 3 150s go back to ATW unless something can take their place.

[Btline]

No way, LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) 172s are the end of the batch, so 2010 (late 2009) at the earliest!