June 2010 stock changes ...

[whole diary]

[TJ]

I read in the latest issue of Modern Railways this morning that the proposed half hourly service on the Merthyr branch had been approved by the Welsh Assembly and is due to start in May 2009. That will decision will almost certainly mean that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will have to hand back the 5 x 150s that they have on loan from Arriva. I fear that will that leave FGW very short of stock.

TJ

[G.Uard]

How is a 150/1 without intermediate door controls any different to work than a 143? You still have only 1 available DKS^▸ (Door Key Switch)....

On 143 units, although the DKS is in the cab, the panel itself is in the saloon.   On the 150/1, the DKS and panel is at either end of train in slam locking end section. As such, a conductor can't see right through the train as opposed to the view afforded by the more open construction of a 143, (great added safety feature which also speeds up operation). 

 150/1 coaches are longer and have the potential to carry more passengers, which slows down guard's progress through train and makes for a longer hop back to DKS  and slam style crew door.    Add to this the fact  that 150/1's are worked with BR1 keys as opposed to the infinitely easier to use T carriage key.

These factors may seem quite trivial and no doubt, crews would soon become accustomed to the demands of the 'new' stock, but from a purely personal viewpoint, the seconds added would soon add up, particularly during rush hour.

[Timmer]

New build 4 car units are being pushed for for CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-PMH services by FGW^▸ (First Great Western), am I ever wrong about things like this? 

No you aren't Vacman, you have very reliable sources. 4 car units with first class returning?

[John R]

I read in the latest issue of Modern Railways this morning that the proposed half hourly service on the Merthyr branch had been approved by the Welsh Assembly and is due to start in May 2009. That will decision will almost certainly mean that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will have to hand back the 5 x 150s that they have on loan from Arriva. I fear that will that leave FGW very short of stock.

TJ

Only 1 extra unit needed for a half hourly service. The others were for lengthening existing trains, of which nothing was said.

[Lee]

More on the Cardiff-Merthyr service in the link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2242.msg27928#msg27928

[Worcester_Passenger]

Forgive my ignorance - what's DKS^▸ (Door Key Switch)?

[Lee]

New build 4 car units are being pushed for for CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-PMH services by FGW^▸ (First Great Western), am I ever wrong about things like this? 

That's what we've been told as well :

It also included new-build units for Portsmouth-Cardiff services, which FGW are actively pushing for, and which is thought to be a key part of Network Rail's emerging RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) proposals.

I have received this from FGW :

If we had enough rolling stock then a revised timetable between Portsmouth and Cardiff along with the stopping patterns would be possible.  There could, for example, be a faster limited stops Cardiff - Portsmouth service along with an additional stopping service on the route, essentially providing three trains an hour.  However, the first step is to secure additional rolling stock to strengthen services and FGW is in discussions with the Department for Transport in this regard.

We would like to see four car trains on Cardiff - Portsmouth.

[smithy]

Forgive my ignorance - what's DKS^▸ (Door Key Switch)?

door key switch  when turned on it provides power to the crew control buttons to allow the doors to be armed and closed and also energises the interlock to operate the signal buzzer from control panels.

How is a 150/1 without intermediate door controls any different to work than a 143? You still have only 1 available DKS....

On 143 units, although the DKS is in the cab, the panel itself is in the saloon.   On the 150/1, the DKS and panel is at either end of train in slam locking end section. As such, a conductor can't see right through the train as opposed to the view afforded by the more open construction of a 143, (great added safety feature which also speeds up operation). 

 150/1 coaches are longer and have the potential to carry more passengers, which slows down guard's progress through train and makes for a longer hop back to DKS  and slam style crew door.    Add to this the fact  that 150/1's are worked with BR1 keys as opposed to the infinitely easier to use T carriage key.

These factors may seem quite trivial and no doubt, crews would soon become accustomed to the demands of the 'new' stock, but from a purely personal viewpoint, the seconds added would soon add up, particularly during rush hour.

i am reliably informed all the 150/1's fgw will eventually have in the fleet will have intermediate control panels fitted once they are refreshed.

[smithy]

The middle carriage of current three car 150s don't have driving cabs.

As I said previously, except for 150001 and 002, which were the class prototypes and had centre cars built without driving cabs, all the other three-car sets currently operated by LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) do indeed have a cab on the centre car, because these were all formed by splitting two-car 150/2s, which have corridor connections, and inserting them into 150/1 sets. So yes, you can get lots of two-car sets out of the three-cars, should you want to.

Just as with all but one of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s three-car Class 158 fleet, the centre car cabs are in full working order with yellow ends and these sets do operate as two-car if there is a fault on one coach, so you do sometimes see them out there with a corridor connection at one end (from the 150/2) and the flat cab front of a 150/1 on the other.

There is a picture illustrating the arrangement at http://www.miac.org.uk/stourbridgejunction3.htm

it would be a major job to split the hybrid 3 car 150's LM operate as the middle cabs are not complete (i.e been used for spare parts) and the snow ploughs are missing. they have been together for that long now it would be better to leave well alone in my opinion.

[gaf71]

How is a 150/1 without intermediate door controls any different to work than a 143? You still have only 1 available DKS^▸ (Door Key Switch)....

On 143 units, although the DKS is in the cab, the panel itself is in the saloon.   On the 150/1, the DKS and panel is at either end of train in slam locking end section. As such, a conductor can't see right through the train as opposed to the view afforded by the more open construction of a 143, (great added safety feature which also speeds up operation). 

I agree about the view, but on the 150/1 you have 2 positions to work the doors as the DKS are situated in both end vestibules, so therefore more options. I've also heard a rumour the DKS will be turned round on the 143's refresh, so that they are in the saloon.

[smithy]

I agree about the view, but on the 150/1 you have 2 positions to work the doors as the DKS^▸ (Door Key Switch) are situated in both end vestibules, so therefore more options. I've also heard a rumour the DKS will be turned round on the 143's refresh, so that they are in the saloon.
[/quote]

that will be a good modification if it is done,will have to wait a couple of weeks for 143617 to return and see if it is done

[vacman]

it would be a major job to split the hybrid 3 car 150's LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) operate as the middle cabs are not complete (i.e been used for spare parts) and the snow ploughs are missing. they have been together for that long now it would be better to leave well alone in my opinion.

London Midland will have to return them to the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) in full working order, and don't be suprised if they are split up to return to the ROSCO!

[The SprinterMeister]

I agree about the view, but on the 150/1 you have 2 positions to work the doors as the DKS^▸ (Door Key Switch) are situated in both end vestibules, so therefore more options. I've also heard a rumour the DKS will be turned round on the 143's refresh, so that they are in the saloon.

I believe the staff side have requested that the DKS be remounted so as to be on the saloon side of the cab bulkhead. The former HST^▸ (High Speed Train) driving seats fitted to some of the 143's have impeded access to the DKS, there is also the issue of guards entering the leading cab to operate the DKS when carrying out revenue protection on crowded services.

[The SprinterMeister]

it would be a major job to split the hybrid 3 car 150's LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) operate as the middle cabs are not complete (i.e been used for spare parts) and the snow ploughs are missing. they have been together for that long now it would be better to leave well alone in my opinion.

London Midland will have to return them to the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) in full working order, and don't be suprised if they are split up to return to the ROSCO!

There are two odd 57 cars from 150/2 units within certain LM 150/0 three car sets. The 52 cars have in both cases been destroyed in accidents so I wouldnt think they will be reformed as a 2 car class 150/2 as there would be no lavatory in the set.

[G.Uard]

Depot rumour has it that the all the earmarked three car units will be supplied in that formation. Someone quite senior did tell me not to expect intermediate DKS^▸ (Door Key Switch) positions with refurb though, due to cost  constraints.  Again, only word of mouth and not an indication of official policy.

With regard to reversing the DKS on 143s. yes please, especially if we are to 'retain' a pair in the Brizzle area to work SVB services.