Cross Country overcrowding

[whole diary]

[dog box]

Is it me or is it getting worse?.....Voyager at Reading today was totally wedged at lunch time

[chrisoates]

Is it me or is it getting worse?.....Voyager at Reading today was totally wedged at lunch time

Have your's had coach B removed too ?

[willc]

But it's not hard to fill a four-car Voyager, at any time of the day, or of the week. Wrexham & Shropshire's refurbished sets will provide almost as many seats in two Mk3 standards and a buffet first - Voyager 162 standard class (176 after refit), 26 first class; W&S^▸ (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) 144 standard, and 30 first.

And no contest as to which will be the better passenger experience.

[Timmer]

Paying the price for the decision made a few years back to replace 7 coach HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)/Locos Mk2s^▸ (Mark 2 coach) with four/five coach Voyagers. As great as the AXC^» (Arriva Cross Country - about) decision to bring back five HST sets back onto the Cross Country network is, its nowhere near whats needed with current loadings the way they are.

[Btline]

It is a shame XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) can't get hold of some of those 180s!

[devon_metro]

No, it seems Northern is a more suitable candidate     

[r james]

It would definetly have made more sense in my eyes for them to get the entire 180 fleet, but that will never happen now! 

Im sure if the 180s were refitted with different seating layousts, they would get far more seats in than a 5 car voyager! 

[willc]

Im sure if the 180s were refitted with different seating layousts, they would get far more seats in than a 5 car voyager!

You could do it, but why would you want to get in more seats? Then they would be as horrid to travel in as a Voyager. Five-car Super Voyagers have 26 first class and 224 standard class, Adelantes have 42 first class and 226 in standard, plus 16 tip-up seats.

[smokey]

Paying the price for the decision made a few years back to replace 7 coach HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)/Locos Mk2s^▸ (Mark 2 coach) with four/five coach Voyagers. As great as the AXC^» (Arriva Cross Country - about) decision to bring back five HST sets back onto the Cross Country network is, its nowhere near whats needed with current loadings the way they are.

With one First Class Carriage, the Six Standard class carriages (ok 5 1/2 allowing for the guards van) were replaced by just 3 standard (2 1/2 taking into account the Crash Zone on the Driving vehicle) on a 4 car Vomet Comet. Not a Smart move I think.

Of course the DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) seem hell bent on squeezing more and more passengers into Rail vehicles. Well standard class anyway, me thinks members of DaFT that do travel by Rail will go First class of course, hence no such pack 'em in policy in First (class).

About time EU^» (European Union - about) law specified a Minimum amount of space per seated passenger. Animals get specified amount of room for transporting.

[IndustryInsider]

Cross Country's new timetable was of course launched yesterday, too. The removal of the Brighton trains and their new HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets seems to have done little for added capacity which is desperately needed. I can't speak for the services from/to the South West, but I must have seen about 15 trains on the route through to Reading and the South Coast yesterday, and far from any of them being a double Voyager only one was a 5-car. The rest were all 4-car sets. Prepare for mayhem over the Christmas period if that is still the case! Refurbishment with 16 extra seats, and 27% extra luggage room (where did they pluck that figure from!?) will do practically nothing. If I was a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Train Manager I'd be looking for another job!

The service pattern has changed radically from that of 5 years ago as well. When 'Operation Princess' was launched on the route through Reading/Oxford there were regular through trains from Brighton and Portsmouth which have now all gone with all those trains curtailed at Reading (except a lone example to/from Guildford). There were hourly trains north from Bournemouth serving a variety of destinations including Manchester, Liverpool, Scotland via the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) and Scotland via the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line).

Now it's regular, clockface timetables destinations. All the trains from Bournemouth go to Manchester. All the trains from Reading go to Newcastle (with one exception through to Edinburgh). Granted, some destinations give you a wealth of choice, but XC's market of elderly passengers who just wanted a couple of through trains a day to choose from will find themselves forced to change; One train a day from Reading/Oxford to Scotland, none from Bournemouth. No trains from anywhere direct to Warrington/Wigan/Preston/Lancaster/Oxenholme/Penrith/Carlisle/Glasgow. No trains from anywhere direct to Liverpool (though that's been the case for a couple of years now). No trains from Bournemouth up the ECML to Newcastle.

To be fair, there are some improvements. Late evening there are later trains between Reading/Oxford and Birmingham - there's a 21:45/22:30 last service north from Reading/Oxford, and the latest service south is an hour later at 22:04 from Birmingham. Those trains fill gaps where the service was previously curtailed too early.

Overall though, I don't think these changes are for the best, to put it mildly!

[Zoe]

How were Virgin ever allowed to get away with ordering trains that would not be up to the job?  Did the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have more freedom back then?

[woody]

I understand that that the government have asked Network Rail if the the main Great Western main line to Bristol and Swansea could be wired up within a 5 year period.Network rails answer was they could do it in 3 years.If that is the case then an electrified GW^▸ (Great Western) main line would release valuable Refurbished HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for use on Crosscountry at some point.We await the outcome of the governments electrification study in the new year.

[Zoe]

I understand that that the government have asked Network Rail if the the main Great Western main line to Bristol and Swansea could be wired up within a 5 year period.Network rails answer was they could do it in 3 years.If that is the case then an electrified GW^▸ (Great Western) main line would release valuable Refurbished HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for use on Crosscountry at some point.We await the outcome of the governments electrification study in the new year.

HSTs I believe have to be withdrawn from service by 2020 and with only a small potential IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) order to replace the HSTs now on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) it looks like we will be stuck with Voyagers for some time.

[IndustryInsider]

How were Virgin ever allowed to get away with ordering trains that would not be up to the job?  Did the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have more freedom back then?

I think the increase in passengers following Operation Princess caught even Virgin by surprise. Shortly afterwards I thought that the 5-car sets should have been extended to 6-car, and the majority of the 4-car sets extended to 5-car. A few 4-cars could have been kept to double-up to 8-car sets on the busiest of services and to work as 4-car sets on the quietest of services. I guess a suitable business case couldn't be made?

The trains themselves have their critics, but at least they worked reasonably well out of the box - certainly when compared to the Adelantes! Errors of design (in my opinion) are the lack of Selective Door Operation and I believe they only have one-shot sanders which means as soon as it's used the train has to come out of service at the first suitable location - or be driven from the other cab? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that one!

[Zoe]

The trains themselves have their critics, but at least they worked reasonably well out of the box

They didn't like sea water though.