Wrong train, wrong TM

[whole diary]

[Ollie]

How do we know whether or not this itinerary she had printed was actually given with the ticket that she purchased originally?

[grahame]

Trust me, age means nothing, some of the most awkward customers ....

That may not be the perceived view, but I can totally appreciate it and believe it.  Picture a pair of sprightly older people walking along the pavement in Torquay - a busy road with just room for the two of them. Coming the other way, a mother with a young child; the OAPs did not give way (go single file) but kept on walking and forced mother and child off pavement and nearly under a lorry.

We see so much, we forget so many things and incidents.  But thinks like this stick in the mind; it was August 1998, I saw it for myself - and I can still picture people involved, the type of lorry.

[Super Guard]

Off-topic, but here is another reason not to trust those OAPs 

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Granny_jailed_for_mobility_scooter_drug_bust&in_article_id=340195&in_page_id=34

[devon_metro]

Trust me, age means nothing, some of the most awkward customers ....

That may not be the perceived view, but I can totally appreciate it and believe it.  Picture a pair of sprightly older people walking along the pavement in Torquay - a busy road with just room for the two of them. Coming the other way, a mother with a young child; the OAPs did not give way (go single file) but kept on walking and forced mother and child off pavement and nearly under a lorry.

We see so much, we forget so many things and incidents.  But thinks like this stick in the mind; it was August 1998, I saw it for myself - and I can still picture people involved, the type of lorry.

Being "younger" I am often forced off the pavement for people who think that because of the stereotypical view of young people, I am as inconsiderate as they are acting. Then again, at least most older people are able to board the train. Always love it when people are mystified on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) with the concept of a handle.

[John R]

Seems to me this was the train company's error, not the passenger, by printing her the wrong itinerary against the train she was booked onto.

Although it quite clearly states on the advance tickets that you need to stick to the trains allocated, my parents were travelling back from Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central one Saturday evening and because they arrived at the station quite early they were told there was no problem them getting on an earlier train to the one they were booked onto since it would get them home quicker. So its entirely up to the train manager.

Doesn't always work though. When I returned from Brussels recently on a through ticket, I managed to cross London in 30 minutes, in time to catch the 1930 to Nailsea. But my through ticket had (reasonably) allowed more time and booked me on the 2000 to Bristol. I asked whether I could board the 1930 and was told not without buying a new ticket. So with a change at Bristol I ended up in Nailsea an hour later than I could have done.

Next time I won't buy a through ticket, but buy the London CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) ticket which is valid on any service, assuming that is still available  now we have through ticketing. 

[vacman]

Seems to me this was the train company's error, not the passenger, by printing her the wrong itinerary against the train she was booked onto.

Although it quite clearly states on the advance tickets that you need to stick to the trains allocated, my parents were travelling back from Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central one Saturday evening and because they arrived at the station quite early they were told there was no problem them getting on an earlier train to the one they were booked onto since it would get them home quicker. So its entirely up to the train manager.

Doesn't always work though. When I returned from Brussels recently on a through ticket, I managed to cross London in 30 minutes, in time to catch the 1930 to Nailsea. But my through ticket had (reasonably) allowed more time and booked me on the 2000 to Bristol. I asked whether I could board the 1930 and was told not without buying a new ticket. So with a change at Bristol I ended up in Nailsea an hour later than I could have done.

Next time I won't buy a through ticket, but buy the London CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) ticket which is valid on any service, assuming that is still available  now we have through ticketing. 

At least you were given correct honest info!

[Ollie]

Next time I won't buy a through ticket, but buy the London CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) ticket which is valid on any service, assuming that is still available  now we have through ticketing. 

It's still available.

[John R]

Thanks Ollie!

[Tim]

Its dangerous to make comments without both sides of the story but:

1, the lady's age is irrelevant
2, Whilst she may have been confused or mislead by staff at the station, the customer is ultimately responsible for checking her own ticket. 
3, The guard is not in a position of being able or willing to argue the toss on the train.  If she has a complaint about the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) she ought to contact customers services and explain everything to them.  As a paying passenger, I'd be anoyed if Guards only targetted "chavs" and let old ladies get away with afre evasion. 
4 ^115 for a ticket is extortionate.  ^10.50 for the ticket is rediculously cheap.  Neither price is really justafiable.  If you are an occasional traveller who has a ^10 ticket you probably won't realise just how expensive an open fare is and when the Guard tries to impose a ^115 fare on you, you are likely to see it as a punative and perhaps even a vendictive act.  as such you are unlikely to have warm feeling towards the man with the ticket machine.  I can't help feeling that a lot of ill feeling is generated between passengers and TOCs (and unfortunately the Guards are often on the sharp end of this) is exacerbated by the high price of open returns and the huge gap between the advance fares and the open fares.  If you could pay ^30 to upgrade a ^40  advanced fare to a ^70 open fare, plenty of people would do this before they boarded rather than try-it-on on the train.  I am not defending anti-social or criminal behaviour but is a fact of life that the more that there is at stake the more inclined people are to be argumentative and agresive over the issue.
5, To gather ^115 from a train of people you have to be fairly "pursuasive" in asking for the money.  If the "good Samaritan" was hassling other passengers for money then I can see how the "begging" analogy might work.

[Btline]

You make a good point over the prices...

Is it fair for the fares to be so different when bought at different times?

[vacman]

I think it's dangerous to start saying there is to much of a gap between advance and open fares (as christian wolmar has in latest rail) as the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s will only raise advance fares to close the gap! At the end of the day if you don't like the terms of your advance ticket then don't buy one and just pay over the odds for an open ticket! if you want to save money then buy advance and don't moan when you don't catch your booked train! it's simple! some people cant see a bargain when it kicks them in the boll**ks!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Just out of idle curiosity, have you ever thought of working in marketing, vacman?   

[Mookiemoo]

I think it's dangerous to start saying there is to much of a gap between advance and open fares (as christian wolmar has in latest rail) as the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s will only raise advance fares to close the gap! At the end of the day if you don't like the terms of your advance ticket then don't buy one and just pay over the odds for an open ticket! if you want to save money then buy advance and don't moan when you don't catch your booked train! it's simple! some people cant see a bargain when it kicks them in the boll**ks!

I can see a similar analogy with a simple point

In the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), with what I do, I have a choice between exploiting all the tax loopholes and netting 80% of gross or paying up and netting 40% (mainly driven by the protection of temp workers I dont want to be included in - i'll protect myself)

But I am about to take a contract in switzerland where I will go on the payroll - if I stay jumping through hoops I will net 80%  but I can use their system and net 70% - the differential is not worth the hastle

Maybe if the difference between advance purchase and open wasnt so big , there wouldnt be the problems they cause

Most of TOC income probably come from rush hour and open commuters - if they lost 50% of the advance market would it cause that much of an issue  if it resolved most of this hastle

[willc]

How about even a system where you pay fully online if you wish and print out your own ticket?

Already available on Chiltern and Wrexham & Shropshire websites. You can print out a barcode, or get it sent to your mobile phone as a text message. Conductors have hand-held scanners and I believe the ticket gates at Marylebone are suitably equipped as well.

For Eurostar, London CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) tickets are available from all stations - there's still only a limited number of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) stations where the through fares are available, although Chiltern seem to offer them from every station they serve - go figure.

[devonian]

Was on a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service the other day and the family in front of me had been sold advance tickets and been given an itinerary at the station (somewhere in the North) that did not match-up.

Whether or not it was genuine, I couldn't tell but the Guard came down on the side of it being legitimate after much scrutiny.

Personally, I don't find the system confusing at all and I fail to see how anyone can find it confusing with all the warnings and information banded about regarding ticket restrictions. Only those that keep their head buried and don't read all the restrictions (which are on a separate web page that you are forced to view) would find themselves in a situation where their ticket is not valid. Unless of course, they were given wrong information. From my experience, whenever I have had any issues with advanced tickets (cancellations etc), the first question I have been asked is "What ticket are you travelling on?".

It might be a gross over-generalisation but the vast vast majority of problems with advance tickets are caused by customers who are incapable of reading the information they are given several times (even on the ticket itself!).

No sympathy whatsoever. People should learn to take responsibility for themselves rather than pin it on other people.

As to the price of advance tickets - I travel on them a lot and so think they are great! I do think a full price ticket is expensive (Peak), definitely so if there is more than one person travelling. I'm even selling my car as it cannot compete with the average rail fare of my most common journeys. Get rid of advance tickets and there will be a far higher deamnd for road traffic. TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) would shoot themselves in the foot.