Don
|
|
« Reply #285 on: March 29, 2009, 18:46:40 » |
|
Thanks willc,
In that case, then the only thing that we can reasonably expect is that the punctuality will happen.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Regards, Don.
|
|
|
Class 50
|
|
« Reply #286 on: March 30, 2009, 22:18:06 » |
|
That seems like a very good start, then the timetable can be reviewed in May 2011, after that other operators can look at the capacity, perhaps some Didcot Coal trains should come this way, rather than clog up the Main Line.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
willc
|
|
« Reply #287 on: March 30, 2009, 23:22:50 » |
|
Not sure that the Network Rail engineers have coal in mind - almost all recent track relaying on the existing double track section has been steel sleepers and these are being torn out on the Leeds-bound track of the Settle-Carlisle a matter of years after being laid, thanks to the hammering they get from coal trains from Scotland.
Nice Freightliners with proper suspensions - that might be more like it. And Freightliner and EWS▸ are both desperate for diversionary routes for trains to and from Southampton when Oxford-Banbury-Leamington is shut, hence their strong support for East-West to Bletchley. Lateral clearances on the Cotswold Line won't be a problem, thanks to Mr Brunel, but not entirely sure about the headroom under some bridges, especially the one just south of Charlbury where the double track will end.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Chris from Nailsea
|
|
« Reply #288 on: March 30, 2009, 23:39:43 » |
|
... almost all recent track relaying on the existing double track section has been steel sleepers and these are being torn out on the Leeds-bound track of the Settle-Carlisle a matter of years after being laid, thanks to the hammering they get from coal trains from Scotland.
Thanks, willc. Just as an aside, to my casual observation, the same appears to be happening on the freight line between Bristol Temple Meads and Portbury Dock. Network Rail seem to be busy removing the (fairly new) steel sleepers and stacking them in the old Railfreight yard west of Parson Street - and replacing them with concrete sleepers.
|
|
|
Logged
|
William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
|
|
|
willc
|
|
« Reply #289 on: April 01, 2009, 00:19:57 » |
|
Spoke to Richard Rowland of FGW▸ at Moreton station tonight about arrangements for the summer.
He said there should be at least one peak through working from Hereford and Worcester to London via Cheltenham and return (probably extensions of existing Cheltenham trains) but he is hoping to make that two. The final arrangements for these trains, shuttles and replacement buses should be settled by the end of this month.
When the blockade is Moreton-Evesham only, shuttles will run at both ends of the line, with the aim being to offer departures as near as possible at the times in the normal timetable, subject to stock and staff availability.
They are talking to local bus operators and other bits of First Group about obtaining vehicles for the replacement bus services.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
James_H
|
|
« Reply #290 on: April 04, 2009, 09:22:10 » |
|
Hmm... my understanding was as follows:
The first stretch where redoubling will be complete will be between Charlbury (or thereabouts) and Moreton and once this is complete, extra trains will be allowed to stop at Hanborough that currently go through non-stop (such as the 08:00-ish departure from Oxford) - but no extra trains will be introduced.
Then when the whole job is complete, an hourly service will run in each direction.
Surely when the job is complete, there won't still be 2 hour gaps between services...?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
gwr2006
|
|
« Reply #291 on: April 05, 2009, 12:25:04 » |
|
Hmm... my understanding was as follows:
The first stretch where redoubling will be complete will be between Charlbury (or thereabouts) and Moreton and once this is complete, extra trains will be allowed to stop at Hanborough that currently go through non-stop (such as the 08:00-ish departure from Oxford) - but no extra trains will be introduced.
Then when the whole job is complete, an hourly service will run in each direction.
Surely when the job is complete, there won't still be 2 hour gaps between services...?
The new track will not be brought into use in sections but in one go at the end of the programme, currently estimated by Network Rail to be early 2011. Track will start being delivered to site overnight from April and continue through the summer. The closure between 18th July and 1st September will be to reposition 7 signals and 60 location cabinets, to divert 20 miles of signal cables and to slew the track and prepare the formation for the new track. This will involve completely removing the track and ballast and repairing the drainage in Chipping Campden Tunnel. Track laying will start in January 2010 and take about 22 weeks to complete until June 2010. The new track will remain out of use until a closure later in 2010 to connect the new 70mph turnouts at Charlbury and Evesham and commission the signalling. This will be transferred to the Thames Valley Signalling Centre at Didcot. The removal of token exchange, higher speed turnouts and new intermediate block signals should mean more trains can call at Hanborouigh but this is unlikely until the full scheme is completed. There is still no business case for an hourly service as the redoubling has been justified on performance not service enhancement but FGW▸ are looking to fill in some of the existing gaps if they can make better use of existing staff and rolling stock resources. What happens after that is all wrapped up in the new HLOS▸ vehicles and the IEP▸ programme and how they are used.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Don
|
|
« Reply #292 on: April 05, 2009, 20:21:19 » |
|
What is your source gwr2006?
I have been told that a new temporary signal box (something like a portakabin) will be built at Evesham (or perhaps Moreton) until being transfered to Didcot sometime after 2012.
The rest seems spot on, except to add that track laying may be done using Network Rails new fast track laying system if it is ready in time. This system being one of the solutions to the requirement for saving money and running a 24/7 railway.
The Cotswold line is expected to be the last line added to the new Didcot signal centre, after Oxford.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Regards, Don.
|
|
|
willc
|
|
« Reply #293 on: April 05, 2009, 23:05:08 » |
|
Unless there is a rethink at a very late stage in the final design process, the signalling will be going to Didcot. DafT put out a press release on March 20 when Lord Adonis visited the line saying this was what was going to happen, and while NR» won't actually give a 100 per cent firm commitment, pending the completion of the design phase, what was said to me when I asked the question in a professional capacity makes it clear that's the way things are moving, see http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/search/4234401.Signal_for_change_on_the_Cotswold_Line/I met Mike Gallop, the NR regional enhancements manager, last week and what he told me about the work programme tallies with gwr2006's account. People will be able to see more and more new track on the ground over the coming months, but commissioning will be done only when everything is in place.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
gwr2006
|
|
« Reply #294 on: April 06, 2009, 16:40:42 » |
|
What is your source gwr2006?
I have been told that a new temporary signal box (something like a portakabin) will be built at Evesham (or perhaps Moreton) until being transfered to Didcot sometime after 2012.
The rest seems spot on, except to add that track laying may be done using Network Rails new fast track laying system if it is ready in time. This system being one of the solutions to the requirement for saving money and running a 24/7 railway.
The Cotswold line is expected to be the last line added to the new Didcot signal centre, after Oxford.
My source is the Network Rail project manager and project team. The signalling will now go straight into TVSC» at Didcot, after the first relocation from Reading which I think looks like being the relief lines next spring and the Berks & Hants in summer 2010. The next panel from Reading then transfers after that. Oxford is not yet programmed but resignalling in 2016 is the current best guess. Network Rail now believe it is more cost effective to do that, saving the running and staff costs of three smaller boxes at Ascott, Moreton and Evesham or the abortive costs of a temporary short-term solution. They will also update the equipment at the same time which should mean better customer information as a result of improved train detection. I've not heard the project team talk about using any new fast track laying machine and at the moment it is the intention to deliver materials like ballast and sleepers to work sites overnight and for them to be layed and track connected during the daytime using green zone working. This avoids the need for regular possessions and minimises disruption.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Andy W
|
|
« Reply #295 on: April 08, 2009, 08:17:52 » |
|
Track will start being delivered to site overnight from April and continue through the summer. The closure between 18th July and 1st September will be to reposition 7 signals and 60 location cabinets, to divert 20 miles of signal cables and to slew the track and prepare the formation for the new track. This will involve completely removing the track and ballast and repairing the drainage in Chipping Campden Tunnel.
Out of interest:- 1) when were the location cabinets & signal cables installed? If, as I suspect, it was done very recently why weren't they installed with doubling in mind at that time? 2) When was the track last layed that is now being re-layed because it is slewed? Again, if that was done relatively recently why wasn't it re-aligned at that time to simplify re-doubling. 2) Other than to align for platforms, why is the track slewed? If, as has been suggested in the past, it was to allow for higher speeds does this mean that doubling will reduce the maximum speed allowed?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
IndustryInsider
|
|
« Reply #296 on: April 08, 2009, 10:30:22 » |
|
Out of interest:-
1) when were the location cabinets & signal cables installed? If, as I suspect, it was done very recently why weren't they installed with doubling in mind at that time?
2) When was the track last layed that is now being re-layed because it is slewed? Again, if that was done relatively recently why wasn't it re-aligned at that time to simplify re-doubling.
2) Other than to align for platforms, why is the track slewed? If, as has been suggested in the past, it was to allow for higher speeds does this mean that doubling will reduce the maximum speed allowed?
gwr2006 might be able to give a more definitive answer. but... 1) Some were installed as recently as two years ago. Long stretches of cable troughing was laid without any consideration for future redoubling, especially between Moreton and Evesham. Most of the cabinets were already there though and had been for many years following the original singling. 2 and 3) No track has been properly re-laid (i.e. rails AND sleepers/ballast) on the affected sections in the recent past. Single track has in some areas been moved to the centre of the old double-track formation because that is where the ground is most stable and the cost of maintaining the route is therefore reduced - that was all done many years ago though. Now that double track is being re-laid some embankment work will no doubt be required in certain places. I think that linespeeds will largely be unaffected. There was talk of Aston Magna curve reducing to 60mph in the Down direction - can anyone confirm? The current track is laid towards the inside of the formation, but may have to be shifted inwards slightly further. Other areas should be able to stay as 75mph (Evesham to Moreton) and 100mph Ascott to Charlbury. It's a shame Moreton-Evesham can't be increased to 90mph in places as the track formation would allow it, but I believe it is being ruled out due to the cost of crossing modifications? Finstock is the most notable location where 100mph would be difficult to engineer with two tracks, but as that isn't part of the current scheme it doesn't matter as yet.
|
|
|
Logged
|
To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
|
|
|
Andy W
|
|
« Reply #297 on: April 08, 2009, 15:04:55 » |
|
Hi II,
Thanks for the explanation. I would have hoped that even if re-doubling wasn't on the cards at the time, given the longevity of cabling etc. it would have been installed with re-doubling in mind.
Regarding replacement of track - I thought that rails & sleepers were replaced, judging by what is left by the track-side.
Also, why have 70mph points at Charlbury & Evesham within a mile of the stations, given that all trains stop at both stations? Wouldn't it be far cheaper to have slower speed points closer to the stations, there is little value in having double track in those positions (west of Evesham / east of Charlbury) as the time saved in those locations is minimal given their proximity to the stations?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
willc
|
|
« Reply #298 on: April 08, 2009, 18:27:45 » |
|
But for trains accelerating away from both those stations, the ability to run at 70mph is invaluable.
The train crew posters will be able to say how fast an HST▸ and a Turbo will be going after running a mile from a standing start, but a 70mph turnout means drivers won't even have to think about approaching these points, just keep the power on. Equally, when braking, they are still likely to be going at a fair pace at both locations.
I think most of the slewed track, certainly on the Oxfordshire section, dates back to the major renewals in the early 1980s, after BR▸ decided to replace worn out track there.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
IndustryInsider
|
|
« Reply #299 on: April 08, 2009, 22:41:32 » |
|
Thanks for the explanation. I would have hoped that even if re-doubling wasn't on the cards at the time, given the longevity of cabling etc. it would have been installed with re-doubling in mind.
Regarding replacement of track - I thought that rails & sleepers were replaced, judging by what is left by the track-side.
Also, why have 70mph points at Charlbury & Evesham within a mile of the stations, given that all trains stop at both stations? Wouldn't it be far cheaper to have slower speed points closer to the stations, there is little value in having double track in those positions (west of Evesham / east of Charlbury) as the time saved in those locations is minimal given their proximity to the stations?
I totally agree on the cabling issue, and vented my frustration on the subject a few months ago in another topic. Track renewals can take three forms; just the rails, rails and sleepers, and/or the ballast too. Sleepers (and ballast if tamped regularly) last longer than the rails, and none of the sleepers on the sections to be redoubled have been replaced in the last 10 years. As for the 70mph points, I think that's the maximum speed for pointwork which just requires standard components. Any more and you have to have additional moving parts. So having 70mph doesn't actually cost much more than, say a 40 or 50mph crossover. The additional speed will be useful for empty stock movements as well as passenger trains braking for the stations - which can easily still be doing over 60mph at the Cornbury Estate bridge at Charlbury and more than that at the location west of Evesham where the re-doubling will end (provided signalling is altered to allow a clear run into the platforms).
|
|
|
Logged
|
To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
|
|
|
|