Bright lights! Bright lights! (Poor Gizmo could never travel with FGW)

[whole diary]

[dog box]

OK, here's a scenario.  Packed train, 3 car hybrid 158, well past Llanwern, bound for the Severn Tunnel and beyond.  Lights fail in the two front coaches and the black hole approaching at lots of miles per hour.  As a guard, do you,

A) Call Control, get the train stopped at STJ^▸ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station)? (No time for that). 

B) Evacuate all pax in the front coaches into the trailing coach?  (No room and a refreshment trolley blocking the way half way up the middle coach)

C) Clear the front coach and proceed through the tunnel with your Bardic shining on the ceiling of still populated but quite dark  coach 2?  (Works quite well but for the student from Treforest making bird shapes with his hands in front of your beam).


Answers on a postcard etc etc.


(I did C when it happened to me a few days ago.)   Now that I have admitted to infringing the rules, I will probably be posted to Sidmouth as a platform supervisor.

Play the hand you're dealt. Sounds like a good compromise, as you supplied emergency lighting, supervised movement within the coach, ensured a competent person was within the coach, and reassured passengers.  However, doing nothing and going back and sitting in the rear cab (which is what others on here seem to imply is an acceptabe course of action) would have been the wrong thing to do, as you realised. 

Here is what i would have done,...buzzed Driver got him to stop train at N70, Evacuated both coaches. then proceeded through tunnel...and if passengers failed to cooperate the train would stay exactly where it was. the severn tunnel is a very hostile horrible place to fail in as it is, and without any saloon lighting you are just asking for trouble

[Btline]

However, doing nothing and going back and sitting in the rear cab (which is what others on here seem to imply is an acceptabe course of action) would have been the wrong thing to do, as you realised. 

I do not think that! A packed 158 with 2 coaches out going through thr Severn Tunnel is an ENTIRELY different kettle of fish!

In that case, I agree that some sort of action should be taken. It's called Common sense.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Here is what i would have done,...buzzed Driver got him to stop train at N70, Evacuated both coaches. then proceeded through tunnel...and if passengers failed to cooperate the train would stay exactly where it was. the severn tunnel is a very hostile horrible place to fail in as it is, and without any saloon lighting you are just asking for trouble

As an impartial observer, I'd tend to support dog box in his text book answer, as being the 'correct' thing to do.

C) Clear the front coach and proceed through the tunnel with your Bardic shining on the ceiling of still populated but quite dark  coach 2?  (Works quite well but for the student from Treforest making bird shapes with his hands in front of your beam).
(I did C when it happened to me a few days ago.)

On the other hand, if I'd been in that particular situation, I'd have been tempted to do the same - but I would also have ensured that my Bardic connected heartily with at least one of that Treforest student's ears, as I progressed through the gloomy carriage ...

 

[John R]

Whilst I've thoroughly enjoyed the few trips over the years I've had in the dark in an unilluminated coach, I think 2 out of 3 out through the ST in a packed train is probably one instance when Elf and Safety is compromised by carrying on.  

[Btline]

Whilst I've thoroughly enjoyed the few trips over the years I've had in the dark in an unilluminated coach, I think 2 out of 3 out through the ST in a packed train is probably one instance when Elf and Safety is compromised by carrying on.  

Exactly my point. H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) should adapted to fit the circumstances. It is needed in this case. It was not needed in my case.

[Btline]

In your opinion - when did you do your rules exam?

Umm.... sorry you've lost me!

I have done no such exam, but we are talking about <20 secs of darkness for 1 unlighted carriage once in my experiences! I really don't think that a full evacuation was required...

[gaf71]

In your opinion - when did you do your rules exam?

Umm.... sorry you've lost me!

I have done no such exam, but we are talking about <20 secs of darkness for 1 unlighted carriage once in my experiences! I really don't think that a full evacuation was required...

Train crew gave set down rules to follow, thats what flamingo means by rules exam. Basically the rules state that if lighting fails in a coach after darkness, or if the journey will pass through a tunnel( no matter how short) said coach should be evacuated.

[G.Uard]

Here is what i would have done,...buzzed Driver got him to stop train at N70, Evacuated both coaches. then proceeded through tunnel...and if passengers failed to cooperate the train would stay exactly where it was. the severn tunnel is a very hostile horrible place to fail in as it is, and without any saloon lighting you are just asking for trouble

With hindsight, I must own that this is the 'correct' and probably best solution.  However, as I was so close to the tunnel portal and faced with a herculean task of moving passengers, (I only just cleared the first coach in time), I acted as I judged best and most effective at the time.  That said, I fully appreciate the potential risks of failure inside the tunnel under such circumstances and if ever faced with the same situation, I will, (time permitting), follow dog box's suggestion.

[broadgage]

As regards the total failure of lighting in one carriage of a train, evacuation seems a bit OTT^▸ (Open Train Times website) for short tunnels in daylight, but perhaps justified in the case of a long one.
On DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) I have often wondered why a few lights in each vehicle are not powered from the adjacent coach, this would almost eliminate total lighting failures.
Am I the only customer who allways has a torch with them, after dark, or when travelling?

As regards turning out the lights deliberatly in order that passengers may sleep, or see out of the window, I dont feel that turning out every light would be sensible.
The light level in one coach could be reduced to say 5% of that normally provided, this would still be ample for safe movement. (measured light level at table height in refreshed HST^▸ (High Speed Train) was 400 lux, 5% of this, at 20 lux would be ample for movement, and is still TEN times the light required for emergency lighting)

As regards the oft-repeated complaint that the general lighting is too bright throughout, I think that only the lights along one side of the coach should be used.
Customers could then sit to the left or the right of the gangway according to preference.

[Tim]

 the severn tunnel is a very hostile horrible place to fail in as it is, and without any saloon lighting you are just asking for trouble

What would realistically happen if the train failed in a tunnel other than having an unpleasant wait in the dark to be rescued?

[broadgage]

 the severn tunnel is a very hostile horrible place to fail in as it is, and without any saloon lighting you are just asking for trouble

What would realistically happen if the train failed in a tunnel other than having an unpleasant wait in the dark to be rescued?

Probably nothing, but some might panic, and others might attempt to use matches or lighters as light sources with consequent risk of fire.
The cyalume lightsticks are a rather limited light source, but a lot better than nothing, especialy once the eyes are dark adapted. They are brighter than the cheapo no name lightsticks used in nightclubs etc.
Are these carried on all FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trains ? or only on the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)?

[thetrout]

there would always be one person who would have a panic attack

[John R]

As regards the total failure of lighting in one carriage of a train, evacuation seems a bit OTT^▸ (Open Train Times website) for short tunnels in daylight, but perhaps justified in the case of a long one.
On DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) I have often wondered why a few lights in each vehicle are not powered from the adjacent coach, this would almost eliminate total lighting failures.
Am I the only customer who allways has a torch with them, after dark, or when travelling?

As regards turning out the lights deliberatly in order that passengers may sleep, or see out of the window, I dont feel that turning out every light would be sensible.
The light level in one coach could be reduced to say 5% of that normally provided, this would still be ample for safe movement. (measured light level at table height in refreshed HST^▸ (High Speed Train) was 400 lux, 5% of this, at 20 lux would be ample for movement, and is still TEN times the light required for emergency lighting)

As regards the oft-repeated complaint that the general lighting is too bright throughout, I think that only the lights along one side of the coach should be used.
Customers could then sit to the left or the right of the gangway according to preference.

Coach H (1st) lights went out last week on the 1730 ex Paddington as it approached Swindon. Result was a half hour delay as the crew cleared the coach and tried to fix the defect. Bit OTT if you ask me, and I did very politely point out to the crew that a 30 minute delay seemed excessive. They told me that some passengers refused to leave. I'd have been inclined to tell them that any accident that occurred whilst travelling in a coach against the instructions of the train crew was their own fault and carried on with no delay to the rest of the train.

[thetrout]

Coach H (1st) lights went out last week on the 1730 ex Paddington as it approached Swindon. Result was a half hour delay as the crew cleared the coach and tried to fix the defect. Bit OTT^▸ (Open Train Times website) if you ask me, and I did very politely point out to the crew that a 30 minute delay seemed excessive. They told me that some passengers refused to leave. I'd have been inclined to tell them that any accident that occurred whilst travelling in a coach against the instructions of the train crew was their own fault and carried on with no delay to the rest of the train.

about 3 weeks ago the 1800 Bath Spa - Taunton was full and standing upon arrival. with all the passengers waiting to go home the train was evidently not going to carry all the passengers. Eventually someone in charge decided to declassify Coach F so some Standard Class Passengers could sit down to all more passengers to stand in the vestibules...!

I happily moved to Coach G however, the three remaining businessmen in Coach F decided to be awkward and refused to move. Ensuring that the doors of vestibule sliding door in Coach G opened and closed for the remainder of the journey to Bristol Temple Meads Where I wisely got off

[woody]

There is a thread running on another forum http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35893&page=3 regards lighting levels on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and there seems some confusion as to whether dim or bright is the official setting.Whenever I travel now on FGW in Devon and Cornwall now the lighting is always set to dim which I personally find ideal.So is dim the official setting now on FGW HSTs or is there not one.