Ian Hislop & Beeching Report Anniversary - BBC4 Thursday 28/03/13 2100hrs

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Yet more examples of 70s cuts!

Yes, the Bewdley to Kidderminster line is now part of the SVR, and although very beneficial to the area, a mainline service would be of better use to the locals.

Unfortunately, the line through Stourport was ripped away when a nearby power station was demolished and houses were built.

And look at the price tag to rebuild 1/2 of the Oxbridge line! Why couldn't they have kept it open?

[Electric train]

Yet more examples of 70s cuts!

Yes, the Bewdley to Kidderminster line is now part of the SVR, and although very beneficial to the area, a mainline service would be of better use to the locals.

Bourne End - High Wycombe, Didcot - Southampton via Newbury

[John R]

Though DNS^▸ (Domain name service) closed in 1962, so was a precursor to Beeching rather than happening long after.

[eightf48544]

Possibly as damaging as the Beeching closures were the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) rationalisations in the 70/80 such as Cotswold line and Salisbury to Exeter and Swindon To Kemble single tracking, fortunately Kemble to Stroud and Glouscester didn't happen.

I would suggest about a third of the Beeching closures should have been kept open, but agree that some of the post Beeching closures were worse such as in my area Bourne End to High Wycombe and the Oxbridge line. Had both been open Bucks could have had a train service connecting Slough (in Bucks to 74?) Maidenhead to High Wycombe, Aylesbury Milton Keynes and Oxford Bicester to Milton Keynes. All teh principle towns of the county. With a facing connection at Claydon an Oxford Bicester Aylesbury (London) service.

That's my one big critism of Beeching was he took the existing train services on lines  which when you looked at them were basically pre grouping services. If it started MR^▸ (Midland Railway) it ended Midland. Little  thought was given to rerouting or possibly putting in spurs to provide a service between staions that had not previously had a through service but which would non the less keep staions open but allow lengths of line to be shut.

I don't know whether anyone can think of another example but the only place I know of where this was done with  passenger service was to put in a link between the R&SB^▸ (Signal Box) line from Swansea to Treherbert and the GW^▸ (Great Western) line from Port Talbot to Abergwynfi line at Cymmer East Junction and Gelli Junction. This enabled a mile of R&SB line to be closed eliminating a tunnel and a viaduct where the lines ran parallel up the same valley.

Of Course Beeching did have good effect on the amazing number of lines in places such as the Nottinghamshire coalfield whereby with building spurs particularly at Shirebrook and the introduction of MGRs BR were able to serve most of the then open collieries with a single branch instead of the two or perhaps three pre-gouping connections most  still had. Unfortunately they all lost their passenger services.

It took the reopening of the link from Annesley to Kirkby in Ashfield to restablish passenger servces to Mansfield. This is interesting in that it used the routes of three pre grouping companies. The Midland, GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) and GN although at different levels to the original routes.   

[Super Guard]

Out of interest, when is the South-West programme repeated, as I am sure I read somewhere it would be repeated soon 

[Chris from Nailsea]

BBC4, 20:30, Sunday 30 November - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3826.0

Chris 

[Super Guard]

Thanks! 

[Chris from Nailsea]

We moderators do have some uses! 

[Phil]

We moderators do have some uses! 

I feel misrepresented here! Clearly I don't!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Erm ... correction: it's on Thursday 27 November, at 20:30, on BBC4 - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fpvr4

 

[Electric train]

May be Beeching was brutal, may be his mate and Government boss Marples (of Tarmac fame) had an agenda to build motorways but I suspect that many of the closures would have happened anyway but gradually and while dieing that would have dragged down even the mainlines by drawing on resources.

BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) had not real choice even in the 70's and 80's to close stations and line's the DoT gave BR only so much money required efficiencies each year the choice was maintain the major routes and secondary or close bits that lost a lot of money.  I can remember in the Thatcher years whole sale moratoriums on track renewals and other maintenance that lasted for 6 months year after year basically because the DoT reduced the either the budget half way through the year, never gave enough in the first place or there was a major incident that used all the cash up.  Even when BR sold off its land the proceeds when to HMG and BR had to grovel for it back, the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) fleet was paid for by HMG lending (yes lending) land sale money back to BR.

Fortunately the person that Thatcher put in as Beeching Mk2^▸ (Mark 2 coach) turned out the be a good freind of the railways, Peter Parker

[Lee]

Apologies for bumping this one up, but I'm sure I would have replied at the time 

The document that paved the way for the post-Beeching closures can be found in the link below.
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BRB_NetworkForDevelopment1967.pdf

That's my one big critism of Beeching was he took the existing train services on lines  which when you looked at them were basically pre grouping services. If it started MR^▸ (Midland Railway) it ended Midland. Little  thought was given to rerouting or possibly putting in spurs to provide a service between staions that had not previously had a through service but which would non the less keep staions open but allow lengths of line to be shut.

In my view, one line which would certainly have benefitted from the above approach would have the Great Central Railway. If a chord from the Great Central to the Nuneaton-Leicester line had been installed in the Whetstone area, this would have enabled GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) services to run into the Midland station at Leicester, and potentially continue north from there to Loughborough, Nottingham and beyond, while allowing the original GC route through those places (which would have been seen as a duplication) to be abandoned.

From both a strategic passenger and freight perspective, I believe that a London-Aylesbury-Brackley-Rugby-Lutterworth-Leicester line would have survived comfortably into today's era.

Unfortunately, this didnt happen. For a very good insight into this most controversial of line closures, click on the link below.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nick.willis/history/time/index.html

Could the line still be reinstated, even now? Well, as I'm sure some of you know, the reopening of the line between Aylesbury-Leicester, with new stations at Brackley and the M1/M6 intersection north of Rugby, is included as a "secondary aspiration" (but not, unfortunately, as a cast-iron commitment) in the Chiltern Franchise Agreement (page 379 of the link below.)
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/publicregister/current/cr/chiltern.pdf

Ruth Kelly even floated the idea in the Commons in January 2008. However, getting the line through Rugby could be nigh on impossible, in the face of likely significant opposition (sparked in part by Central Railway's earlier plans to run lorries on trains on the line close to homes built in recent years), and the fact that some of the route through Rugby forms part of a nature reserve (links below.)
http://www.rugbytoday.co.uk/news/Plans-to-open-historic-rail.3684424.jp

http://www.rugbytoday.co.uk/editors-viewpoint/Editor39s-Comment-Great-Central-line.3684405.jp

http://www.cwn.org.uk/business/a-z/c/chiltern-railways/2000/08/000810-new-central-scheme.htm

http://www.rugby.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=468&pageNumber=37

Indeed, part of the trackbed at the former Rugby Central station is now a pond....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rugby_Central_station_remains.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rugby_Central_station_remains2.jpg

On a related note, the two preserved Great Central Railway organisations have ambitious plans to re-open the original GC route between Nottingham-Leicester, with interchanges with the mainline at Loughborough and trams at Nottingham (link below.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Central_Steam_Railway

[Btline]

Although I am pro nature reserves, the rail link would do more for the environment.

And as for the noise - its a "not in my back yard" argument. I am sure everyone in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) would embrace less lorries on the roads!

But Chiltern would really need 125 mph trains (plus more track capacity in north London, plus another platform at Marylebone) to run a service quick enough to draw road users off the M1.

I also think this route should be looked at to extend Eurostar to the Midlands ("The Midlands Parkway" station?). The Grand Central route is dead straight - easy to have 200 mph running.

[Electric train]

Beeching was, with the benefit of hindsight, wrong to close the GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) the rebuild of the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) would have been oh so much easier but why struggle today, 40 years on, to reopen a route unless it can serve populations en route, a reopening of the line from Aylesbury via Brackley to Rugby might have some merit but realistically how many people will it serve, the better aspiration is to build a new dedicated high speed route, with key interchanges and even new local lines if rquired

[Lee]

Although I am pro nature reserves, the rail link would do more for the environment.

And as for the noise - its a "not in my back yard" argument. I am sure everyone in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) would embrace less lorries on the roads!

Not the Rugby folks, from what I can gather....Central Railway were so taken aback by the scale of opposition that their revised proposal bypassed the town altogether.

Here's an overhead shot of part of the route through Rugby (link below.)
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/r/rugby_central/index46.shtml

A good further selection of Rugby Central photos can be found below.
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/r/rugby_central/index2.shtml