Early start from December

[whole diary]

[willc]

Have just run the Monday December 15 Cotswold Line service through the journey planner. Still a chunk of padding on several services, judging by variations in journey times across the day, but it appears some of the worst excesses are gone.

Main highlight of the new service is that the first train of the day will now start back at Worcester Shrub Hill (at 05.02) before picking up the existing path from Moreton-in-Marsh. I'm guessing this duty's set will now run ecs from Bristol to Worcester, rather than the existing arrangement of travelling out empty from London to Moreton.

The rest of the morning peak towards London is pretty much as now, but things change after that. The 08.37 moves back to depart Foregate St at 09.06, reaching London at 11.28. This change could be pretty controversial, as a service arriving at Oxford before 10am and London before 11am is well-established tradition and I'm not sure that an 11.30 arrival in London is going to go down well with day-trippers.

Then from Foregate St it's 10.06, 12.06, 14.04, 14.53, 16.02, 17.21, 18.47, 19.27, 20.59, 22.40 (aka glorified ecs to London).

Coming the other way, the 05.43 from London runs as now, but the 6am Turbo moves back to 06.51 and runs semi-fast to Oxford, then non-stop Oxford-Kingham again (why on earth won't they try a Shipton stop in this service?). After that from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) it's 08.22, 09.21, 10.22, 11.22, 13.22, 15.51, then as current timetable until the end of service with the 21.48 Turbo from Paddington to Shrub Hill. Can't help feeling that two-and-a-half hour gap before the 15.51 (up from two hours now) will only add to the pressure of numbers on this train. Never mind a 2+7, it'll need a 2+9!!

Much of this may be academic if the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) does sign off the redoubling next month, as work on Charlbury to Ascott-under-Wychwood is apparently slated to start in January if approved, so there may not be much of a service for some weeks after Christmas anyway.

[IanL]

Thanks for the heads up Will, Looks like that is me completely stuffed, the current 0938 from Charlbury is the first train available to me 3 days a week after dropping my daughter off at school, this train has in the past departed Charlbury at 0920, the new 1008 departure is just a joke and likely means that I will be getting a second car, something I have been trying to avoid.

This train seems to have been the poor relation on the cotswold line, either being cancelled or Adelanted, I guess if the train isnt coming from Paddington early in the morning it at least cant be an Adelante!

[Mookiemoo]

If its not coming from pad - it may be worse, it could be a turbo!

Is the current 0530ish from WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) stilll in place? 

[willc]

If its not coming from pad - it may be worse, it could be a turbo!

Is the current 0530ish from WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) stilll in place? 

Will be at 05.36, arriving Reading at 07.26 and Paddington at 07.58.

Ian, you're not the only one less than thrilled by the change to the 08.37. It's not great for me either (but who wants to drive into Oxford if it can be avoided?) and a friend from Moreton who works in London uses it regularly, as it fits in well with his hours much of the week, but 30 minutes later into London will make him too late for his start time. That's three of us so far, so how many more people will be affected?

As I said, it will not be a popular change, but I expect it makes great sense operationally for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and I'm sure we will be told that in two years' time - fingers crossed - they can put it back again...

I will be writing to Mr Haines and urge anyone else affected to do so.

[IndustryInsider]

Have just run the Monday December 15 Cotswold Line service through the journey planner. Still a chunk of padding on several services, judging by variations in journey times across the day, but it appears some of the worst excesses are gone.

Main highlight of the new service is that the first train of the day will now start back at Worcester Shrub Hill (at 05.02) before picking up the existing path from Moreton-in-Marsh. I'm guessing this duty's set will now run ecs from Bristol to Worcester, rather than the existing arrangement of travelling out empty from London to Moreton.

The rest of the morning peak towards London is pretty much as now, but things change after that. The 08.37 moves back to depart Foregate St at 09.06, reaching London at 11.28. This change could be pretty controversial, as a service arriving at Oxford before 10am and London before 11am is well-established tradition and I'm not sure that an 11.30 arrival in London is going to go down well with day-trippers.

Coming the other way, the 05.43 from London runs as now, but the 6am Turbo moves back to 06.51 and runs semi-fast to Oxford. Can't help feeling that two-and-a-half hour gap before the 15.51 (up from two hours now) will only add to the pressure of numbers on this train. Never mind a 2+7, it'll need a 2+9!!

Much of this may be academic if the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) does sign off the redoubling next month, as work on Charlbury to Ascott-under-Wychwood is apparently slated to start in January if approved, so there may not be much of a service for some weeks after Christmas anyway.

A very disappointing afternoon gap in the down direction. two-and-a-half hours is far too long! Good news regarding the first up service starting at Worcester though, as there will be demand (if a little limited) from there and Evesham - though I wonder whether the engineering gangs will throw the odd spanner in the works if overnight work has to be squeezed into an even smaller window between the close-down and start-up of services?

If the stopping Turbo from Paddington is now fast, does anyone know if it is still a turbo, or now a HST^▸ (High Speed Train)? It could do with being a HST as the return run is pretty popular and there are usually people standing after Oxford.

And my final question(s) - if/when the ORR signs-off the Cotswold Line re-doubling, does anybody know what will be done with Charlbury? An additional platform will need to be built, but will it be 'sympathetic' to the fantastic stone/wooden building that the current platform and station buildings are made of, or just a modern cheap and quick to construct modular platform? How will access to the platform be provided - if it's by footbridge will there be a ramp for disabled access as it is very handy for disabled passengers now?

[willc]

If the stopping Turbo from Paddington is now fast, does anyone know if it is still a turbo, or now a HST^▸ (High Speed Train)? It could do with being a HST as the return run is pretty popular and there are usually people standing after Oxford.

I'm pretty sure the 6.51 and its return is still a Turbo. The catering symbol is a trolley. And I did say semi-fast. While it is non-stop to Reading, it then calls Tilehurst, Pangbourne, Goring, Cholsey and Didcot, before running non-stop to Oxford.

I'd agree the return working in particular could do with being an HST, but it's pretty hard to justify using one on a lightly-loaded service, running against the peak flow, when there's no slack in the HST fleet at that time of day. I bet Andrew Haines wishes First Group had snapped up a few more of the old XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HSTs a few years ago, when no-one else seemed to want them.

Unless they can find some more trains from somewhere, one wonders how an hourly-off peak Cotswold Line service could be provided from 2010, assuming the double track goes ahead. There may have to be a couple of Turbo shuttles, making connections at Oxford, to plug some gaps between HSTs, but the Turbos displaced from the line by the Adelantes seem to be pretty fully occupied these days coping with demand in the Thames Valley.

I'm beginning to think disposing of the Adelantes, whatever their technical shortcomings, looks an increasingly short-sighted move, as there are a number of services where off-peak HSTs are carting round a lot of empty seats, while a Turbo doesn't offer the right quality environment for passengers - they are suburban DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), with the 166s being an after-thought attempt to produce a medium-distance train on the cheap - they compare poorly with the 158s, which were purpose-built for that job.

At Charlbury it's actually only the listed Brunel station building itself that is anything special. The platform face is a mix of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) brick and BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) concrete blocks on the extension. The opposite platform was, before demolition, brick at the station end, while the GWR used some sort of blocks on the extension up to the bridge it built in the 1920s.

What would be good would be if someone would cough up for a replica of the rather unusual and elegant wooden waiting shelter, with Gothic-arched entrances, that sat on the Worcester-bound platform. See http://www.charlbury.info/cgi-bin/dgallery.cgi?gallery=old_pictures_-_places and scroll down to the sepia picture captioned Charlbury Station.

I gather that a ramped footbridge will be built at the north end of the platform, as close to the Burford road bridge as possible, both to give the Brunel building a bit of breathing space, but also to tuck the structure out of the way when looking across the valley to the station from the town, as there are trees to screen it. I just hope it's a bit more elegant than the one at Moreton-in-Marsh, which does the job but takes up a lot of space and is hardly a thing of beauty.

[Btline]

There may be a few extra HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) floating around after the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) is given HST2s.

They might terminate more trains at Worcester, and let LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) provide the onward service.

[willc]

There may be a few extra HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) floating around after the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) is given HST2s.

They might terminate more trains at Worcester, and let LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) provide the onward service.

The first IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) prototypes are not due until 2012 and they will be electric, so unless there is a sudden burst of extra electrification in the meantime, NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast) will still need all its HSTs until bi-mode IEPs become available or more wires go up.

Not sure hacking back trains out to Malvern would be a great idea, after the level of services has been enhanced quite a bit in recent years and let's face it, it's probably operationally easier with the way things are set up at Worcester to just run through the place and set back somewhere else, none of which will change any time soon.

[Lee]

Not sure hacking back trains out to Malvern would be a great idea, after the level of services has been enhanced quite a bit in recent years and let's face it, it's probably operationally easier with the way things are set up at Worcester to just run through the place and set back somewhere else, none of which will change any time soon.

I cant help thinking that the above quote has added resonance today, given the link below....
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3511.msg27264#msg27264

[coachflyer]

The 2148 from pad is to be a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) stabled at shrub hill which will make up the 0503 departure in the morning.

There will be a turbo departing Morton at 0537 to Worcester to make up the morning halts train.

There is an aditional turbo leaving pad at 1422 to Morton which will leave there at 1615 to Oxford.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for that useful information, coachflyer - and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum! 

[willc]

The 2148 from pad is to be a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) stabled at shrub hill which will make up the 0503 departure in the morning.

There will be a turbo departing Morton at 0537 to Worcester to make up the morning halts train.

There is an aditional turbo leaving pad at 1422 to Morton which will leave there at 1615 to Oxford.

Which begs a few questions. Why on earth is this morning Turbo going to enter passenger service at Moreton? It will presumably run empty out from Oxford, so what's wrong with offering the chance for people to join there and by request at the main stations before Moreton (rather like the 05.12 Plymouth to Gunnislake)? There may not be many takers, but you're paying for the crew and fuel anyway. Also I see this train doesn't even call at Honeybourne. All this may be operationally convenient, but whatever happened to giving the public a chance to use a train?

Does this 14.22 to Moreton herald a return to regular Turbo turns on Oxford fast duties (late evenings excluded)? I have little doubt its seating capacity will be inadequate between London and Oxford in the summer and school holidays. And a 14.22 working will actually do little or nothing to relieve the pressure on the 15.51. A 14.52 would have been far more use in that respect.

While it's good that the 21.48 is an HST - and that presumably someone is paying to provide basic overnight servicing facilities for an HST at Shrub Hill - it's yet another train on the route that will be carrying around air - most nights you could fit all the passengers beyond Oxford into one coach, with room to spare, and it's rarely too crowded before Oxford either. I know you need to get the right trains in the right places for the mornings, but it's pretty frustrating that we get another empty 125 at a time when no-one is travelling, yet none can be found for what will become in December the 10.06 from Worcester to London, when an HST would be useful, as Industry Insider noted earlier.

[IndustryInsider]

The 2148 from pad is to be a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) stabled at shrub hill which will make up the 0503 departure in the morning.

There will be a turbo departing Morton at 0537 to Worcester to make up the morning halts train.

There is an aditional turbo leaving pad at 1422 to Morton which will leave there at 1615 to Oxford.

Which begs a few questions. Why on earth is this morning Turbo going to enter passenger service at Moreton? It will presumably run empty out from Oxford, so what's wrong with offering the chance for people to join there and by request at the main stations before Moreton (rather like the 05.12 Plymouth to Gunnislake)? There may not be many takers, but you're paying for the crew and fuel anyway. Also I see this train doesn't even call at Honeybourne. All this may be operationally convenient, but whatever happened to giving the public a chance to use a train?

Does this 14.22 to Moreton herald a return to regular Turbo turns on Oxford fast duties (late evenings excluded)? I have little doubt its seating capacity will be inadequate between London and Oxford in the summer and school holidays. And a 14.22 working will actually do little or nothing to relieve the pressure on the 15.51. A 14.52 would have been far more use in that respect.

Interesting revelations there from coachflyer - thanks.

Perhaps an answer to the turbo starting at 05:37 from Moreton-In-Marsh rather than from Oxford is because the Worcester based guard will travel up on the HST and join the train at Moreton? The train would then run DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) from Oxford which it can't do with passengers on. Otherwise I agree it should be in service!

I agree with Will about the loadings on the last Worcester, but most 'last trains of the day' operated by HST's are very quiet for the last legs of their journey and I am sure with it being a HST more people will be inclined to catch it - though it is never going to be jam-packed!

The afternoon turbo to Moreton is a good idea. A compromise. Not an ideal one, but better than nothing. As it is only going to Moreton, as long as it's a three car I don't personally think capacity will be a problem. It's mid-afternoon, you'll be missing the passengers for Evesham and Worcester that would normally be on a through service as well as all the passengers changing at Worcester on a typical through train. Added to that it looks like it's not calling at Slough so there goes another 30-50 people.

[coachflyer]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are developing plans to greatly expand the depot at Worcester with upto six HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s stabled there. This would be for both the Oxford service and Cheltenhams saving all the empty running to Bristol.

The plan is for the turbo to be worked by Reading Guards so there is no reason why it couldn't start there!

I also checked and the 0542 is going forward to Great Malvern and so this is the reason it is later.

The 1922 service will continue through to Hereford so providing a garenteed conection unlike at the moment.

There will also be a later through train from Hereford starting at about 2210

[Mookiemoo]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are developing plans to greatly expand the depot at Worcester with upto six HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s stabled there. This would be for both the Oxford service and Cheltenhams saving all the empty running to Bristol.

The plan is for the turbo to be worked by Reading Guards so there is no reason why it couldn't start there!

I also checked and the 0542 is going forward to Great Malvern and so this is the reason it is later.

The 1922 service will continue through to Hereford so providing a garenteed conection unlike at the moment.

There will also be a later through train from Hereford starting at about 2210

Is there any plan - please let there be - for FGW to take over WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) from london midland

I loathe london midland