Reading redevelopment unveiled

[whole diary]

[kazbear]

Out today

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/News%20September2008/100908-Reading.html

[Lee]

Further related links.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2035167_new_cow_lane

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2008/09/10-reading-station-boost.html

[willc]

Worth noting that both BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) and ITV local news programmes on Friday evening flagged up prominently the provision of space at the new depot to accommodate Crossrail trains in the future - IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) wasn't mentioned. So looks like they were both given a very clear steer on this point. Did the rail industry campaign to get Crossrail extended to Reading just start here?

[IndustryInsider]

Worth noting that both BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) and ITV local news programmes on Friday evening flagged up prominently the provision of space at the new depot to accommodate Crossrail trains in the future - IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) wasn't mentioned. So looks like they were both given a very clear steer on this point. Did the rail industry campaign to get Crossrail extended to Reading just start here?

I've only heard one official answer as to why it is only going to Maidenhead. That is that there's little point in it starting at Reading as any long distance passengers wanting to connect isn't going to change onto a slow train at Reading when they can travel through fast to Paddington and join CrossRail there. Which is indeed the case in many ways, but that's not really the point of extending it to Reading. It makes sense because Reading is a much more natural starting point for these suburban trains. Having them start at Maidenhead means all sorts of implications for the current service from Reading via Twyford to Maidenhead. I have said before that I will be very surprised if Reading isn't under the wires in a few years time!

[willc]

I think the real reason Crossrail is planned to end at Maidenhead is that its backers did not want to be asked for a contribution towards the cost of Reading station's redevelopment, resignalling and electrification. Two of those three issues are now funded and if recent reports of banks' reluctance to pay for any new big fleets of diesel trains are true, then the third may soon be taken care of as well, so as to keep the GW^▸ (Great Western) main line operating from the middle of the next decade when the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) finally give up the ghost.

[eightf48544]

Did the rail industry campaign to get Crossrail extended to Reading just start here?

I think the real reason Crossrail is planned to end at Maidenhead is that its backers did not want to be asked for a contribution towards the cost of Reading station's redevelopment, resignalling and electrification. Two of those three issues are now funded and if recent reports of banks' reluctance to pay for any new big fleets of diesel trains are true, then the third may soon be taken care of as well, so as to keep the GW^▸ (Great Western) main line operating from the middle of the next decade when the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) finally give up the ghost.

The  reason I was given by Crossrail for it currently terminating at Maidenhead is that's where the money ran out for the overhead (i.e. we can plan to spend X where do the wires run out?) because as wiilc says going to Reading would have made X too large.  

Unfortunately this stupid decision has now become an obstacle to the main argument that what's needed is the complete electrification of GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) to at least Plymouth (all routes including Melksahm) Swansea (Tunnel and Gloucester) and Birmingham (via Worcester and Banbury) then Crossrail can terminate anywhere. Basingstoke Reading also has to be electrified to go with the Banbury route. 11 coach Pendolinos on Cross Country?

Fortunately many people in the rail industry now support wholesale electrification and are pressing DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) for a plan. The danger is that is that in asking  for  Crossrail to be extended to Reading it gives the DfT an easy way of saying "look we're not against electrifcation" and give the go ahead then forget about electrifying the rest of the line.

We mustn't let extending Crossrail to Reading become a distraction from the major push for wholesale electrification of much of Britain's Railways. Remember Crossrail is really only the tunnel from Paddington to Whitchapel. Where it terminates either side only depends on where the wires go so in teh East it could just as easily terminate in Norwich, Harwich, or Kings Lynn. The problem  at Paddington is that are only wires as far as Hayes.

So what we ought to be pleased about in the Reading plan is that provision is being made for the maintenace of suburban EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) as replacements for the Turbos, for use on Thames Valley local services. This makes sense.

[dog box]

hang on a bit....where is all this electric going to come from?? you are gonna need a lot of windmills

[Electric train]

The actual cost to wire out to Reading from Maidenhead is quite small in comparison to the amount of station rebuilding Crossrail would had to have done if it had gone there, also Reading Panel would have had to have part of it patch resignalled this alone would have been a complex task, however now that Reading station enhancement has the green light the extension west will follow on.  The Secretary of State has included a protection order the Crossrail Bill, the design and construction of Reading has included future Crossrail provision, platform space and sidings.

There is also another stumbling block going west from Maidenhead and that is a suitable National Grid site for a feed at Reading, the Early 132kV Bulk Supply Sub station does not have the capacity and would need a substantial amount of money to increase the capacity to meet the 6MW loading per train for Crossrail. 

The planned supply points for Crossrail (in the west) are Westbourne Park, an upgraded Hayes (currently used by HEX) and Iver.  Both Westbourne Park and Iver are close to 275 and 400 Kv, respectively, grid lines Westbourne Park is an underground cable.  The Old Oak Common feed I believe will be decommissioned to allow great capacity at Acton Lane for the West Coast Main Line. 

The Railway take of electric traction supplies is a very complex matter that is done at a very strategic level between Nat Grid, NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and the Government; the loadings required are staggering and can have major impact on the quality and stability of supplies to domestic and industrial consumers.

[IndustryInsider]

Thanks for those insights into electrification and the various hurdles from a technical viewpoint, Electric train - it's an area where my own knowledge is sadly lacking!

[onthecushions]

A few questions, if anyone can help.....

1. Why would this side of Crossrail need more than one modern (AT) 25kV electricity supply point/feeder station ?

(I believe the core West Coast route only needs 6 to Carlisle!)
 
2. The various published maps for the new Reading General seem contradictory as regards track plans. Am I still correct in thinking that the main lines will be slewed through present platforms 8,9 with higher speeds possible ?

3. Why do Mark 3 (HST^▸ (High Speed Train)) BT10 bogies have two swing-link lengths, one of which is said to foul 3rd (live) rails ? How complicated would swops/modifications be, or banning them from this  track?

(This seems to be preventing third rail SWT^▸ (South West Trains) electrics using the present platform 4  to reach Basingstoke and friendly territory)

Thanks for any information.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for your post, onthecushions - and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum. 

While I don't have the answers to your questions, I have no doubt that our members will come up trumps yet again with the information you're looking for!

[willc]

hang on a bit....where is all this electric going to come from?? you are gonna need a lot of windmills

New French-owned nuclear power stations!?

While I don't doubt there are technical issues about power supply, if you want to do it, then someone will be able to sort it out and given that wiring to Reading may well be part of a more comprehensive GW^▸ (Great Western) Main Line programme and with reported reluctance among leasing firms to pay for a new generation of diesel-powered intercity stock, they will have to sort it out.

RE^▸ (Religious Education) BT10 bogies, there are long swing links and short swing links - I don't think BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) ever standardised on one type. The short type does not foul third rails, so all the former CrossCountry sets were built to this standard, though did some GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) sets also have them, given diversions to Waterloo in the past?. These days, with all the ex-CrossCountry sets FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has, there must be a lot of short-link trailers in the fleet.

If there's a problem moving electric stock through platform 4 at Reading, it would probably be the third-rail collector shoes fouling the platform or trackside equipment - and the platform being in near-continuous use by FGW services all day, every day!

[Electric train]

1. Why would this side of Crossrail need more than one modern (AT) 25kV electricity supply point/feeder station ?

(I believe the core West Coast route only needs 6 to Carlisle!)

The key to this is the power requirements stated by Crossrail, they have stated that their units will have a higher power requirement than a pendilio.  However the real crux to why Crossrail was not planned to go to Reading in the Act was the cost of rebuilding Reading Station and the re-signaling of Reading PSB^▸ (Power Signal Box) area.
 

(This seems to be preventing third rail SWT^▸ (South West Trains) electrics using the present platform 4  to reach Basingstoke and friendly territory)

Quite simply the cost to put conrail along the Basingstoke line it would need at least 2 substations (ie 3MW transformer rectifier units HV switchgear and dc switchgear) and 4 TP Huts (dc switchgear) and close on 20 miles of HV (33KV) cable laid, electrification supplies can not be taken from a local pole routes.  A dc traction substation supplied and installed on a greenfield site comes out close to ^1m each

[eightf48544]

As Reading to Basingstoke is such a vital link in the network then if third rail is too expensive then it will have to be 25KV overhead. That would mean dual voltage stock for XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and SWT^▸ (South West Trains).

As I understand it the electrostars  377? are basically supplied as dual voltage machines or can be made dual voltage with little extra cost which is why some are going to Thameslink (alright FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect)) I can't be bothered to work out the franchisees it will only change in a couple of years.

That solves one of the interfaces Basingstoke becomes a DC^▸ (Direct Current)/AC changeover point.

The question then becomes what system is used for Wokingham to Ash and Shalford Junction to Redhill. If Reading Gatwick is the main service then probably DC. However this makes Reading a DC/AC changeover especially as trains to Gatwick are likely to be the ones that make use of the proposed Eastern flyunder. So is Redhill Shalford DC and make Ash AC to Reading. It would mean Wokingham to Reading being dual voltage but it seems to work quite well on the North London line the pantograph is up and down like a yo-yo.

This working on the assumption that 25KV overhead will be standard basically North of the SW mainline and that the rest of the country will be electrified before any large scale conversion of the South East network  takes palce.

[Electric train]

That solves one of the interfaces Basingstoke becomes a DC^▸ (Direct Current)/AC changeover point.

Oh don't go there AC / DC interfaces are a nightmare, involving several 25kV:25kV isolation transformers complex traction bonding and signal isolation

The question then becomes what system is used for Wokingham to Ash and Shalford Junction to Redhill. If Reading Gatwick is the main service then probably DC. However this makes Reading a DC/AC changeover especially as trains to Gatwick are likely to be the ones that make use of the proposed Eastern flyunder. So is Redhill Shalford DC and make Ash AC to Reading. It would mean Wokingham to Reading being dual voltage but it seems to work quite well on the North London line the pantograph is up and down like a yo-yo.

That could be classed as an infill in the network, but as FGW^▸ (First Great Western) currently has the franchise and they don't operate electric traction there is little or not motive at the moment.

This working on the assumption that 25KV overhead will be standard basically North of the SW mainline and that the rest of the country will be electrified before any large scale conversion of the South East network  takes place.

It would be difficult for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to justify to the HRMI 3rd rail electrification on say the Basingstoke to Exeter line on safety grounds.  AS for a wholesale conversion of the SE to overhead that I think is very unlikely what will happen I suspect is a route needs a speed increase to over 100mph that could justify the expense otherwise adding in more substations currently meets the need