FGW may get "NEW" stock for Bristol area

[whole diary]

[The SprinterMeister]

I imagine the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158s had the German System where as most FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have the original BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))!!

No the SWT 158's, 159/0's & /1's  have the original BR aircon plant fitted, the 159/0's all have recieved the Liebherr modifications (extra evaporators) as have certain FGW 158's (158747-9/50-1).

And the SWT stock has certainly not been immune to running around with the emergency windows open.

[Timmer]

Air con on 158/9s is great when it works but awful when it doesn't on a hot sunny day because of the lack of windows that can be opened when it fails.

[12hoursunday]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) always seem to be copped out by all the second hand trains that are need of a freshen up! Logically, could FGW actually purchase brand new DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) trains? I'm unsure of the process...

No, the government have to approve it.

Not true!

If the Go-Ahaed group win the Southern Franchise they will BUY some trains to cover services they provide. As previously stated on this thread First own rolling stock (12 power cars and 42 trailers of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) stock and a few DMU's). I bet your bottom dollar that no approval was asked of the government when they took delivery of these. The key to whether a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) purchases or leases it's trains lie in the length of it's franchise. For any scheme like this a short 10 year franchise will not re-coup any moneies outlayed when buying. The franchised railway looks like it's hear to stay so in my view the only way to get some decent investment from the private sector is to have longer franchises (20 or 25 years) instead of the piddlely little short one's that we have now!

[devon_metro]

Air con on 158/9s is great when it works but awful when it doesn't on a hot sunny day because of the lack of windows that can be opened when it fails.

Whilst on a 158 the other day, It struck me that it couldn't be too difficult to replace all windows with the windows with an open able section...?

[Timmer]

Whilst on a 158 the other day, It struck me that it couldn't be too difficult to replace all windows with the windows with an open able section...?

That would appear to be the most sensible thing to do.

[Timmer]

The franchised railway looks like it's hear to stay so in my view the only way to get some decent investment from the private sector is to have longer franchises (20 or 25 years) instead of the piddlely little short one's that we have now!

Couldn't agree more 12hoursunday. At the moment though it seems like DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) are bent on only offering short franchises which I cannot see will benefit the rail network in the long term as why would a company invest heavily in their franchise if they are going to lose it in a few years time. They are only going to do what the franchise specification requiries whilst attempting to make a profit for running the service on behalf of DFT.

[smithy]

I imagine the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158s had the German System where as most FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have the original BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))!!

No the SWT 158's, 159/0's & /1's  have the original BR aircon plant fitted, the 159/0's all have recieved the Liebherr modifications (extra evaporators) as have certain FGW 158's (158747-9/50-1).

And the SWT stock has certainly not been immune to running around with the emergency windows open.

not true all swt units now have liebherr air con fitted,the tpe sets were fitted with it at wabtec in donny during refurb.

some of the ex wessex have liebherr 747,8,9 and 51 the rest have the original temerature system as fitted on original build.

[bemmy]

The franchised railway looks like it's hear to stay so in my view the only way to get some decent investment from the private sector is to have longer franchises (20 or 25 years) instead of the piddlely little short one's that we have now!

Couldn't agree more 12hoursunday. At the moment though it seems like DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) are bent on only offering short franchises which I cannot see will benefit the rail network in the long term as why would a company invest heavily in their franchise if they are going to lose it in a few years time. They are only going to do what the franchise specification requiries whilst attempting to make a profit for running the service on behalf of DFT.

I totally agree too. If longer franchises is the only way to make TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s ownership of trains viable, then it has to be the way to go.

I can see three major benefits from companies owning the stock they use:
1) they would save money compared to leasing;
2) it would make economic sense to have more stock, because working it less hard will make it last longer (and therefore retain more value), and having spare capacity available in the event of failures is obviously good for passengers customers and therefore profits;
3) if some stock is still available for leasing (for short term flexibility), the leasing companies will have to offer a better deal.

Whereas, as we all know, in the current arrangement the leasing companies can charge what they like, and the TOC's can't afford to lease spare stock even if it is available.

[willc]

Whilst on a 158 the other day, It struck me that it couldn't be too difficult to replace all windows with the windows with an open able section...?
That would appear to be the most sensible thing to do.

And then you get Class 166 storm force 10 syndrome - see How hot were the trains today? in London to Reading, where people see a window and open it, whether or not the a/c is operating.

NOT sensible, believe me! What would be sensible, in the case of both 158s and Turbos, is to fit a/c that actually works and is reliable.

[devon_metro]

Ah - but the current 158 doors are locked by the traincrew unless it gets too hot or the aircon breaks, so the windows could be opened by the train crew who I would hope were able to operate the air-con/know if its knackered.

[willc]

But the emergency ventilation windows on 166s were originally intended to be opened only by train crew, like 158s, as there are also only a few hopper windows per coach. I think it was decided to give up locking them due to the interminable problems with the a/c.

THE sensible thing to do, as I said, is fit reliable, robust a/c. Unfortunately, they've missed the chance to standardise the kit in the 158s during refurbishment and with the 166s, I fear nothing will be done to tackle the lousy system when they are 'refreshed', never mind fitting a/c to the 165s like Chiltern did.

[Phil]

Quite frankly I'd be perfectly happy on short journeys without aircon if there were windows that not only open but actually let some air in. I quite like to hear the world outside and smell the rainy air. Maybe it's just me though.

[bemmy]

Quite frankly I'd be perfectly happy on short journeys without aircon if there were windows that not only open but actually let some air in. I quite like to hear the world outside and smell the rainy air. Maybe it's just me though.

Me too, I find the dry stuffy air unpleasant, but I think we're a small minority Phil -- these days most people seem to think it's essential in trains and cars.

Just about the only time I'm in an a/c environment in this country is when I travel by train. It seems bizarre having it at all in a country where the temperature only goes above 30 degrees every 4 or 5 years. Once a train is moving with the windows open it's not too hot in any weather we are likely to get.

[The SprinterMeister]

I imagine the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 158s had the German System where as most FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have the original BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))!!

No the SWT 158's, 159/0's & /1's  have the original BR aircon plant fitted, the 159/0's all have recieved the Liebherr modifications (extra evaporators) as have certain FGW 158's (158747-9/50-1).

And the SWT stock has certainly not been immune to running around with the emergency windows open.

not true all swt units now have liebherr air con fitted,the tpe sets were fitted with it at wabtec in donny during refurb.

some of the ex wessex have liebherr 747,8,9 and 51 the rest have the original temerature system as fitted on original build.

No I am in fact quite correct.

The Liebherr system is a modification to the existing 158 / 159 'Temperature' aircon system to include additional evaporaters / fans in the roof space above the vestibules.  The Compressor / Condensor module underneath the vehicle is in fact the same as was fitted to the 158's from new.

Non of the later 'Ebac' type air con 158's (815-872) have yet recieved the Leibherr Modification, this system is if anything marginally worse as regards relaibilty.

[The SprinterMeister]

Whilst on a 158 the other day, It struck me that it couldn't be too difficult to replace all windows with the windows with an open able section...?

That would appear to be the most sensible thing to do.

The 159/0's were fitted with additional opening windows (in total 4 each side) some years ago.