Severn Tunnel: Comparing road and rail

[whole diary]

[simonw]

Hi

I went to Bristol PW^▸ (Permanent Way) today, the first weekend visit in months, as against the regular weekday visits, and to my surprise it is a bus station again. Every weekend since April, until some far off point in the future that the staff do not know, the Severn Tunnel is being worked on every weekend. Hence, buses from Newport, BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) and Swindon.

Last year year it was re - wiring, and before that the track. Now the are lining the tunnel.
 
Throughout the 1990s, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) spend about ten years rebuilding the dilapidated MS Avon bridge. before it was finished.

In light of this, the Thelwell Viaduct repairs on the M6 involved the building of a second bridge before shutting the original for repairs. This was a lot quicker and apparently cheaper.

Would it be cheaper/better for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT to build a second Severn Tunnel, then shut and fix the original at leisure.

[devon_metro]

Newport - Bristol Parkway is valid via Gloucester/Cheltenham if you'd rather not sit on a coach.

[welshman]

Sundays are not a day to cross the Severn.  To get home today, a member of my family trained from BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) then bussed from BPW to Newport then trained from Newport to Cardiff Central then trained from Cardiff Central to Radyr and then bussed from Radyr onwards as NR^» (Network Rail - home page) had everything north of Radyr closed today.

As she said, how can she sleep if she keeps having to get off the bus/train every 15 minutes.

[grahame]

Simon, I was across in South Wales [Chepstow] earlier today, having gone across at the start of the weekend.   Here's the only offering that the First Great Western site came up with to get me home.



And that is a journey of around 35 miles as the crow flies!

I use the train where I can ... but as this was a weekend away, and included my Dad who's in in his late 80s, I confess to us taking the car.   The old Severn Bridge was also shut westbound, but that's perhaps a story for another site.

[John R]

Last year year it was re - wiring, and before that the track. Now the are lining the tunnel.
 
Throughout the 1990s, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) spend about ten years rebuilding the dilapidated MS Avon bridge. before it was finished.

In light of this, the Thelwell Viaduct repairs on the M6 involved the building of a second bridge before shutting the original for repairs. This was a lot quicker and apparently cheaper.

Would it be cheaper/better for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT to build a second Severn Tunnel, then shut and fix the original at leisure.

I thought they were still wiring it. Also, the opportunity is being taken to do the work at the same time as signalling work in connection with the Newport Area Resignalling, which would shut the tunnel anyway.

I'm afraid it's inevitable that a structure the age of the ST will need a lot of regular maintainance that involves shutting the line. It happens every year, but admittedly this year is worse. It's a shame that we won't get a 90mph tunnel with an intermediate section to increase capacity as a result.

[swlines]

The old Severn Bridge was also shut westbound, but that's perhaps a story for another site.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/

[Btline]

Perhaps a new tunnel as part of the electrification project?

[devon_metro]

Not going to happen.

[eightf48544]

Perhaps a new tunnel as part of the electrification project?

Not going to happen.

You're probably right, but what a sad reflection of the state of the country we can't "afford" to build a new Severn Tunnel.

[Phil]

You're probably right, but what a sad reflection of the state of the country we can't "afford" to build a new Severn Tunnel.

Which country are you referring to when you say "we"?

Sorry if this comes across as sounding rather divisive, but in the light of the Scots announcing they would rather not be a part of "Team GB^▸ (Great Britain)" come next Olympics, I genuinely do believe there is a debate to be had regarding whether the English or the Welsh actually benefit from a new  Severn Tunnel.

[Btline]

You're probably right, but what a sad reflection of the state of the country we can't "afford" to build a new Severn Tunnel.

Which country are you referring to when you say "we"?

Sorry if this comes across as sounding rather divisive, but in the light of the Scots announcing they would rather not be a part of "Team GB^▸ (Great Britain)" come next Olympics, I genuinely do believe there is a debate to be had regarding whether the English or the Welsh actually benefit from a new  Severn Tunnel.

No - Alec Salmond said he wanted to end "Team GB" - not the Scots. The Scots (and English/N- Irish) have been angered by this, and it has backfired on the SNP!!!!

And talking of the Olypics - we are building new Velodromes, new rowing lakes and sponsoring atheletes with serveral billion pounds.

And we can't afford a new tunnel. Well, if we have a new stadium (which will be derelict by 2013! - like the Greek olympic park in 2005) who needs the tunnel.

2012 is far more important!

</rant>

[devon_metro]

I dont see the problem with the current one to be honest

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

also i would imagine that the cost of building a bridge is significantly less than that of building a tunnel

[simonw]

The main problems with the current tunnel are that it is dilapidated, and current speed and use restrictions limit the number of trains that can travel from Wales to England at peak times.

Changes in population, and commuting, mean more local trains are needed between Bristol and Cardiff. A new tunnel, or bridge, could allow HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to travel at high speeds, and allow more local trains to travel between Bristol and Cardiff at peak time.
 

[bemmy]

No way will they ever build a new Severn Tunnel. A bridge should be affordable in the 5th richest country in the world, but almost certainly isn't, although I suppose it's possible that the Welsh Assembly might be able to scrape the money together one day, as long as they don't expect a contribution from this side of the Severn.

The main problems with the current tunnel are that it is dilapidated, and current speed and use restrictions limit the number of trains that can travel from Wales to England at peak times.

Changes in population, and commuting, mean more local trains are needed between Bristol and Cardiff. A new tunnel, or bridge, could allow HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to travel at high speeds, and allow more local trains to travel between Bristol and Cardiff at peak time.

I'm not convinced... 2 trains per hour from South Wales to London and Bristol seems frequent enough to me. They just need to make the trains longer.