Swindon to Kemble re-doubling - ongoing discussion and updates

[whole diary]

[Railfriend]

Phil, thanks for your very informative post detailing the transfer in control from Swindon Panel to Thames Valley.  As I understand it, the Swindon Panel is now disconnected and all control is from Didcot.  Do you know if the Thames Valley Center will be allowing visitors to watch the train controllers at work (perhaps by appointment)?

[ChrisB]

Groups can visit by appointment

[onthecushions]

When reading in newspapers or media generally it is always Beeching who is credited with singling & rationalising lines, Swin-Kem, Thingley-Bradford Jct, Castle Cary-Dorchester, Salisbury-Exeter being obvious examples. But of course the "Good Doctor" departed in 1965. The real culprits for the damage inflicted on the railway, lasting right up until the 1970s, can be laid squarely at the door of governments who saw rail as a thing of the past and put in place ministers' of transport who had absolutely no idea or interest in the workings of their department. I know this is academic now but lazy media reporting always annoys me..

Yes. It was Barbara Castle, Transport Minister 1965 - 1968 that closed over 2k miles of railway (Wiki - presumably track miles.). She didn't even drive.

... and M Thatcher doubled the numbers in comprehensive schools.

Irony ever,

OTC

[GlawsterPanelS&T]

I worked at Gloucester on the S & T for 43 years and can confirm that the line was singled in the summer of 1968. I worked there on the weekend the work took place. There was no thought of mothballing it for a period of time in case of a re-think, just rip it out and centralise the single track for ease of maintenance (to save money).

[TonyK]

Swindon to Kemble was singled at the same time as Thingley to Bradford - 1967 as I recall - when Swindon was last resignalled

The d.m.u. workings from Swindon to Cheltenham Spa are very inefficient - running time of the train is only around 50%.  With the Kemble - Swindon section redoubled, it might be possible to retime trains to pass near to Swindon and thus get up to a service about every 40 minutes.  Lots of ramifications, I suspect, and I've not seen it suggested. 

There are aspirations beyond the introduction of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.); an hourly London - Cheltenham Spa train with an efficient turn around at Cheltenham Spa would have trains passing each other every hour at around Minety on the newly redoubled section and there is scope for an extra service (making it half hourly overall) to also pass there.   That means ... (again) a unit at Swindon for the best part of an hour (45 mins), unless it formed an onward service to somewhere else, with an incoming train from that somewhere else carrying on to (or beyond?) Cheltenham Spa.

There is to be a big reshuffle of the timetable over a wide area to accommodate Crossrail, something which I have seen described as the best way to fit in Portishead and MetroWest trains. Presumably, the best use of rolling stock on this newly redoubled line will be (or probably already has been) looked at in thew same context.

The more I think about the ramifications of retiming even one branch line service into a major station, the more I doff my cap to those who work it all out.

[grahame]

The d.m.u. workings from Swindon to Cheltenham Spa are very inefficient - running time of the train is only around 50%.  With the Kemble - Swindon section redoubled, it might be possible to retime trains to pass near to Swindon and thus get up to a service about every 40 minutes.  Lots of ramifications, I suspect, and I've not seen it suggested. 

I've spotted a fallacy in my suggestion.  The 40 minutes service would be possible, I suspect, to Gloucester but not on to Cheltenham Spa. May be able to do London - Cheltenham, Swindon - Cheltenham and Swindon - Gloucester every 2 hours but the loss of clock face and the headaches caused amongst al the other services around would lead to in being, I suspect, of questionable gain.

[ellendune]

As I understand it, the Swindon Panel is now disconnected and all control is from Didcot. 

I do not think that is the case.  As I understand it for the time being Swindon Panel controls everything it used to except the Kemble line which has transferred to TVSC^» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about).  A train from Gloucester to London therefore passes from Gloucester panel to TVSC to Swindon Panel then to TVSC.

[GlawsterPanelS&T]

Great post Phil Farmer and very interesting. Panels used to, and still do, use block bells to communicate in emergency conditions and when power is down (they used to be tested weekly). Do you know if this will still be the case between Gloucester and the TVSC^» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about)? If not, do you know how the two operating centres interface with each other?

[Railfriend]

Ellendune, Glawster, I still remain in confusion as to 'what and where' controls a trains moving from Gloucester to London on the section of track between Gloucester and Didcot!  Surely control has to be at one location, not two.  Is it Swindon or Didcot?

[grahame]

Ellendune, Glawster, I still remain in confusion as to 'what and where' controls a trains moving from Gloucester to London on the section of track between Gloucester and Didcot!  Surely control has to be at one location, not two.  Is it Swindon or Didcot?

As I read it,  from Gloucester the train gets passed to the new Didcot panel at Kemble, then back to the old Swindon panel just before it gets to Swindon.  Presumably somewhere on the way from Swindon to Didcot, it gets passed back to Didcot - as I read it, at the moment Didcot has got an isolated island of control on the Stroud Valley line as well as its main area based around Didcot.

[bobm]

From Gloucester to north of Kemble trains are controlled by Gloucester Panel.  Control then switches to Didcot as far as Swindon Loco yard where Swindon Panel takes over.  It then moves back to Didcot around Uffington.

It is a similar situation where trains leaving London are signalled by Didcot until they approach Slough when Slough Panel takes over and then hands back to Didcot at Ruscombe.

[Trowres]

An explanation of the changes and new (temporary) arrangements can be found at:
http://www.swindonpanel.org.uk/2014/08/27/kemble-line-migration/

[Railfriend]

I worked at Gloucester on the S & T for 43 years and can confirm that the line was singled in the summer of 1968. I worked there on the weekend the work took place. There was no thought of mothballing it for a period of time in case of a re-think, just rip it out and centralise the single track for ease of maintenance (to save money).

Glawster, you mentioned that you were working 'on the weekend in the summer of 1968' when the line was singled.  Probably took more than just one weekend to remove the second track and slew the remaining one, but probably didn't take much more than a few weeks.  It says it all about our modern times when it takes (including planning and preparatory work) more than a year and 45million pounds to relay the second track from Swindon to Kemble.  Same thoughts as I have on the costs for extending the Jubilee Line versus the costs (in 1900 pounds) and simplicity/functionality involved in building of the Central Line.  One might say that endless safety considerations and workers no longer working for peanuts makes up the difference, but I think there's more to it than that.  Just too much red tape and Government involvement in every aspect of our lives these days.

[ellendune]

I worked at Gloucester on the S & T for 43 years and can confirm that the line was singled in the summer of 1968. I worked there on the weekend the work took place. There was no thought of mothballing it for a period of time in case of a re-think, just rip it out and centralise the single track for ease of maintenance (to save money).

Glawster, you mentioned that you were working 'on the weekend in the summer of 1968' when the line was singled.  Probably took more than just one weekend to remove the second track and slew the remaining one, but probably didn't take much more than a few weeks.  It says it all about our modern times when it takes (including planning and preparatory work) more than a year and 45million pounds to relay the second track from Swindon to Kemble.  Same thoughts as I have on the costs for extending the Jubilee Line versus the costs (in 1900 pounds) and simplicity/functionality involved in building of the Central Line.  One might say that endless safety considerations and workers no longer working for peanuts makes up the difference, but I think there's more to it than that.  Just too much red tape and Government involvement in every aspect of our lives these days.

Item 1 Lay x miles of track and connect up - Easy
Item 2 Carry out 50 years of back maintenance on earthworks to allow track to be laid - Much more difficult
Item 3 Move everything out of the way that has been put there in the last 50 years - Complicated
Item 4 Resignal

There may be other items I forgot.

The ^45 covers all 4 items not just the first, though I accept that there is some overlap between 3 & 4.

[John R]

Item 5 - provide compensation to TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) for the period of line closures.