Extra stock for ATW

[whole diary]

[Btline]

In December, the upgrade of the Cambrian Line will be complete, allowing an hourly service.

As well as this, Aber- B'ham trains are going to be extended to B'ham Intrntnl, with an extra stop at Smthck GB^▸ (Great Britain).

With currently only 20 mins of turnaround in total on the route (15 mins at New Street and 5 mins at Aber) - how will ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) manage this with their stock?

Have they got hold of some more 158s?

[eightf48544]

As well as this, Aber- B'ham trains are going to be extended to B'ham Intrntnl, with an extra stop at Smthck GB^▸ (Great Britain).

With only 20 mins of turnaround in total on the route (15 mins at New Street and 5 mins at Aber) - how will ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) manage this with their stock?

Two observations: Firstly the extension to Birmingham International. Presumably they are using the Chris Green crossover one the cheapest most cost effective measures put in under the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) upgrade.

Secondly whilst I am all for intensive stock utilisation I would suggest with these layover times ATW are pushing the limits. 5 minutes at Aber seems very optimistic bearing in mind many passengers will probably be elderley and/or have luggage. There certainly won't be any time for cleaning. Are there seat reservations on this route?

 

[Btline]

Yes, the route is the worst out of ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s routes due to:

*New Street and West Midlands congestion
*Short turnarounds
*Lots of single track

I also wonder how ATW will fit in an addition train per hour in and out of New Street - and the Wlvrhmptn-New Street line.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, the route is the worst out of ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s routes due to:

*New Street and West Midlands congestion
*Short turnarounds
*Lots of single track

I also wonder how ATW will fit in an addition train per hour in and out of New Street - and the Wlvrhmptn-New Street line.

Indeed. And they're about to make it worse by extending it to International on that over-crowded bit of track. I am suprised that Network Rail have allowed it. I'm surprised the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have allowed it, and I'm surprised ATW want to do it as I can't imagine there being a smattering of through passengers on the train.

Is there some other reason? If not, expect it to last no longer than a couple of years!

[devon_metro]

Yes, the route is the worst out of ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s routes due to:

*New Street and West Midlands congestion
*Short turnarounds
*Lots of single track

I also wonder how ATW will fit in an addition train per hour in and out of New Street - and the Wlvrhmptn-New Street line.

Indeed. And they're about to make it worse by extending it to International on that over-crowded bit of track. I am suprised that Network Rail have allowed it. I'm surprised the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have allowed it, and I'm surprised ATW want to do it as I can't imagine there being a smattering of through passengers on the train.

Is there some other reason? If not, expect it to last no longer than a couple of years!

Revenue from tickets?

[swlines]

Yes, the route is the worst out of ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s routes due to:

*New Street and West Midlands congestion
*Short turnarounds
*Lots of single track

I also wonder how ATW will fit in an addition train per hour in and out of New Street - and the Wlvrhmptn-New Street line.

Indeed. And they're about to make it worse by extending it to International on that over-crowded bit of track. I am suprised that Network Rail have allowed it. I'm surprised the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have allowed it, and I'm surprised ATW want to do it as I can't imagine there being a smattering of through passengers on the train.

Is there some other reason? If not, expect it to last no longer than a couple of years!

The extension to BHI requires 1 more unit and gives a lengthy turnaround at International - as opposed to the short turnaround at New Street currently. The greater turnaround at International gives a higher chance of the unit going through to New Street that way.

[Btline]

But what about the extra stock and capacity for the hourly service?

And where will they get the extra unit from for the extension?

[swlines]

The 175s that came back from TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) a few years ago are still not fully allocated.

[Jez]

I thought the 175's were currently all take up with the Manchester-North Wales, Manchester-South Wales and Cardiff to Holyhead Services?  They even use 158's on these services as there is not enough 175's?

Also the 158's are used on the Maesteg to Cheltenham Spa services so I doubt they have many 158's spare?

[Btline]

Only 158s will use the Cambrian Line, as they are the only units compatible with the new ETMRS (or whatever it is called - some European train blah blah system).

All the 175s are used - indeed ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) would like more units and coaches (why they showed interest in the 180s).

[swlines]

Not *all* the 175s are used. One more is available from the December timetable change which cascades a 158 down.... you get the idea. (I believe there's a 150 diagramming change as well for the Maestag route.)

[eightf48544]

Currently the Cambrian line has RETB^▸ (Radio Electronic Token Block) (Radio Electronic Token Block) unlike ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.) this is not hardwired into the unit but is activated by a portable unit pluged into the units existing radio.

Many units (158s 153s 150s etc.) are apperently fitted with such plugs and brackets to hold the token box so currently there are many units available to work the Cambrian service. Info obtained from:

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw0708i.htm

With ERTMS, however, everything is hardwired like curent AWS^▸ (Automatic Warning System) TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System) and ATP^▸ (Automatic Train Protection) systems so that only units specialy modified will be able to work the route. Which is another potential problem with trying to run an hourly service can it be guarenteed there will always be a suitably equiped unit available to run the service?

Another problem with ERTMS that the Dutch and Belgians have run into, which has delayed the opening of high speed line from Brussels to Amsterdam is software versions. One country uses one version the other another, the trains can only talk to one or other version. So if it's to be come widespread in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) how are software upgrades to be managed?

It already takes a week to add one coach to Pendelino to get all the computers talking to each other, how long is going to take to upgrade every loco/ unit and signalling centre?

[Btline]

I don't understand the point of them spending money on ETRMS.

The Cotswold Line can hold more than an hourly service and it does not have a lot of signalling equipment!

Why don't they slap the new double track down (on the Cambrian Line), and shove an extra signal here and there to increase the number of blocks?

------

And so far, it looks like only one 158 unit is free (which will be used up to extend the existing service to B'ham International). So where are the rest of the 158s coming from for the hourly service? And where will they find capacity in the West Midlands?

[Jez]

Not *all* the 175s are used. One more is available from the December timetable change which cascades a 158 down.... you get the idea. (I believe there's a 150 diagramming change as well for the Maestag route.)

So they will use 150s on the Maesteg-Cheltenham route to free up the 158's for the Cambrian line?

What is the December timetable change?

[willc]

can it be guarenteed there will always be a suitably equiped unit available to run the service?

I should certainly hope so, since the entire ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) fleet of 158s, which is based at a purpose-built depot at Machynlleth, will be fitted with ERTMS^▸ (European Rail Traffic Management System.).

The trial is on the Cambrian Line because: Network Rail needs to test ERTMS in British conditions and a self-contained route like this seems a rather more sensible approach than trying it on a brand new main line like in the Low Countries; the RETB^▸ (Radio Electronic Token Block) kit is 20 years old (and the Scottish installations are even older) and needs replacing soon; and the line is operated by a single type of train (158s - plus NR^» (Network Rail - home page) is fitting a few Class 37s to work engineering trains) so you don't need to equip a whole host of other trains at this stage.