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Author Topic: Newquay and Plymouth Airports - their rise and fall - ongoing discussion  (Read 119788 times)
Andrew1939 from West Oxon
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« Reply #255 on: July 18, 2011, 19:21:39 »

I thought the Quiet coach was supposed to be mobile free now.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #256 on: July 18, 2011, 21:18:28 »

It is. If mobile coverage was permanent on trains, my point is that you'd need more than one quiet ciach for those trying to escape the incessant din!
I was suggesting putting all those who live on their phones in one coach, and they can loudly talk over others doing the same....
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broadgage
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« Reply #257 on: July 19, 2011, 03:55:28 »

Remembering the very small number of air passengers compared to rail users, I would not expect much increase in rail use from this.
Good news for the enviroment though, air travell uses a lot of increasingly expensive fuel. Despite the worrying economic situation, crude oil remains at about $100.
Any hint of economic recovery is likely to drive oil prices up substantialy, so it is no good the airline industry hoping things will improve, they wont, at least as regards air travel.

Trains need oil fuel as well of course, but it is a smaller proportion of operating costs than with aircraft.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #258 on: July 28, 2011, 11:18:08 »

The last commercial flight departs from Plymouth Airport on Thursday(today) after about 90 years of services.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-14319875
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devon_metro
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« Reply #259 on: July 28, 2011, 15:41:29 »

Bus to Newquay!

Hilarious
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smokey
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« Reply #260 on: July 29, 2011, 18:52:59 »

Bus to Newquay!

Hilarious

Bloody stupid as well, take the Bus WEST to then fly EAST.
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6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01
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« Reply #261 on: July 30, 2011, 19:20:02 »

mite aswell drive to exeter airport.. ...... only in devon !!
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vacman
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« Reply #262 on: August 02, 2011, 20:27:55 »

What a shame, they tried to take on the big boys and lost, after their rather aggressive anti rail campaign I have absolutely no sympathy!
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #263 on: August 02, 2011, 22:27:10 »

Writing in a purely personal capacity here (rather than as a moderator, or admin), I agree entirely with vacman: Air SouthWest have let me down very badly in the past - to the extent that I even chose to use Voyagers instead!  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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« Reply #264 on: August 04, 2011, 16:31:27 »

Writing in a purely personal capacity here (rather than as a moderator, or admin), I agree entirely with vacman: Air SouthWest have let me down very badly in the past - to the extent that I even chose to use Voyagers instead!  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

oh dear god no :-0
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #265 on: August 05, 2011, 00:32:26 »

I know: but the service from Air Southwest was simply 'appalling'!  Wink Cheesy Grin
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
woody
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« Reply #266 on: August 08, 2011, 22:54:44 »

This was posted in the local morning news paper and explains in great detail the real reasons behind why Air Southwest aka Eastern Airlines are pulling the plug at Plymouth and Newquay airports

Air Southwest has been widely criticised for leaving Plymouth without an airlink. Yet the company^s former compliance and safety manager, Keith Boxall, believes the blame lies elsewhere.

It's about time that somebody told the truth about the demise of the airline that served Plymouth. For weeks now Air Southwest has been blamed for "pulling out" of Plymouth, when actually it was forced out and also forced into closure.

​Airport Sutton Harbour Group lost staff after its announcement that the airport would close in December

Sutton Harbour Group lost staff after its announcement that the airport would close in December


The first problem was a "turf war" with Flybe on the Newquay to Gatwick route. This route was the most popular of Air Southwest's routes but Flybe persistently operated its aeroplanes over that route at very low fares. The effect of this was to force Air Southwest to offer similar fares or come off the route.

Air Southwest took Flybe to court in 2010 alleging unfair trading but lost and as there was no possibility of charging a realistic fare (which would still have been cheaper than the train), the route to Gatwick from Plymouth via Newquay by Air Southwest was closed.

Another nail in the coffin was hammered in by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA» (Civil Aviation Authority - about)) and UK (United Kingdom) National Air Traffic Services (NATS). In early 2009 the UK airspace rules were aligned with those in Europe. Plymouth (and Newquay) is outside of what is known as "controlled airspace". Both airports have Air Traffic Control (ATC (Automatic Train Control)) but this is only for aircraft taking off and landing at the airports. There is no ATC for aircraft flying into and out of the South West, west of a line from Exeter to Bristol.

Until 2009, the UK had rules that provided a degree of ATC in areas outside of controlled airspace, but under the European rules this was no longer permitted and as such, discontinued.

The CAA was concerned about the safety of aircraft carrying passengers flying outside of controlled airspace, and demanded that all airlines flying in this airspace carried out a safety risk assessment concerning the probability of a mid-air collision.

Air Southwest carried out this risk assessment and determined that the risk was unacceptably high during times when Plymouth Military radar (run by the Royal Navy and which provided an ATC radar service to Plymouth airport) was closed. Newquay, on the other hand was less affected as it had its own radar which operated all the time the airport was open.

The owner of Plymouth Airport, Sutton Harbour Group, was asked by Air Southwest (which it also owned at that time) to put in a radar service at Plymouth. The most cost effective way of achieving this would have been to have paid the Royal Navy to provide radar information from the radar set at Wembury into the ATC tower at Plymouth. At the same time Air Southwest asked the CAA and NATS to establish controlled airspace in the form of an air corridor from Exeter to Plymouth and on to Newquay. This was refused.

Air Southwest then asked that special procedures should be applied to aircraft flying near Plymouth, but this was also refused. Air Southwest then asked for a note to be put on air navigation charts warning other pilots of the possibility of encountering their aircraft near Plymouth, but even this simple safety measure was also refused.

Having exhausted every avenue through the CAA and NATS, it was left to Sutton Harbour to make a decision and spend a relatively small amount of money on the radar link to Wembury. This too was finally refused last year, despite the sale of a large portion of the airport by Sutton Harbour, for housing development.

Throughout 2010 Air Southwest (and the airport) was starved of investment by the owners. The airline had plans for a sixth aeroplane, new routes (the London City route was one) and to bring the maintenance of the aeroplanes into Air Southwest (it had previously been contracted to British International at Plymouth). All these were abandoned by Sutton Harbour Group.

Eventually, Air Southwest was put up for sale and was finally "given away" to Eastern Airlines in December 2010. Eastern sold the three Dash-8 aeroplanes that Air Southwest owned outright, to an aeroplane leasing company and then leased them back. Two of these were subsequently returned to the lease company, leaving just three. One of these was also planned to be returned later in 2011. It seemed to me that Eastern had no intention of continuing the air service into Plymouth and Newquay, but instead effectively based the aeroplanes at Aberdeen to service their oil company contracts. Redundancies followed.

Coupled to this, Sutton Harbour Group had rather unwisely announced that the airport would close in December. All this did was to encourage the airport staff to look for other work. As most of them were highly qualified ATC, fire and security staff, they left in droves. This effectively has reduced the airport manning to a level that is unacceptable for passenger flights out of Plymouth.

Both Sutton Harbour Group and Eastern Airways have been aware that the RN radar unit shuts down for the whole of August. It has done so every year for donkey's years. But with the airspace rule change, the adverse safety risk assessment and the refusal of the authorities and Sutton Harbour Group to do anything about the situation, suspension of the flights in and out of Plymouth throughout August was inevitable.

This will now hasten the demise of the airport. Likewise, the loss of income (albeit much reduced by route closures and insufficient aeroplanes) to Air Southwest, has given Eastern the excuse to pull out of the South West altogether.
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #267 on: August 08, 2011, 23:41:01 »

Thanks for that woody.

In the interests of making sure there's no copyright infringement, please could you credit the source and provide a link, and then having done so perhaps cut down the text reproduced here to a couple of introductory paragraphs? Thanks.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #268 on: August 09, 2011, 09:27:05 »

I suspect that Air Southwest are quite happy that their side of the story has been given wider publicity & tgat copyright worrues in this instance are unwaranted
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grahame
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« Reply #269 on: August 09, 2011, 10:07:59 »

I suspect that Air Southwest are quite happy that their side of the story has been given wider publicity & tgat copyright worrues in this instance are unwaranted

I agree that Air South West are probably happy with the story getting wider publicity.   I'm not so sure that the "local morning newspaper" that provided the journalist work behind the presentation of the text ( and is the copyright holder ) would be.  That's where the copyright concerns are.
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