Newquay and Plymouth Airports - their rise and fall - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[grahame]

John R's journey planner times are most revealing. Shows that Paddington is actually a long way West and City Airport is not as far East as one would think.

Slightly off topic ... I find that there are many occasions that I'm in London and Paddington is - well - not the part of London that I need; more often I'm looking for the City, and I used to do a lot of work just south of Tower Bridge. Journey times (ex Trowbridge) to the South Bank / nearest station to where I was going - between 2 hours 20 minutes and 2 hours 30 minutes, no real difference via Salisbury, Westbury and Paddington or Bath and Paddington. And I remember what a pain it was from Paddingto to Excel.  With luggage and on a budget, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) isn't always the best choice to London, even if their trains get you to one part of the place quite quickly.

[RailCornwall]

... Paddington - Excel is one of the simplest cross London trips actually (PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-BakerSt Bakerloo, BakerSt-Canning Town Jubilee, then DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway)) Baker St change being on Adjacent platform.

[woody]

The reason these flights exist at all is because the rail alternative has stagnated for 30 odd years with no sign of improvement.Whether you like it or not these flights are used by people who no longer regard rail as a viable alternative anymore in the far west.For instance the reality is that the first train from Paddington to Plymouth direct is the the 0730 departure arriving Plymouth a 1120ish.To arrive earlier involves a change at Bristol and an equally long journey.The plane will get you to Plymouth an hour earlier after a 70 minute flight from London city.That is not Bo---cks just reality and why even these limited air links are regarded as vitally important to the economy of the far south west.It is now the 21st century and the railway needs to up its game in the west,easier said than done of course.

[vacman]

up on the sleeper and back on the down "Hind" ^86.00 Off-Peak return, in London in time for breakfast, after a nights sleep! I think ASW have poached people from their cars rather than the railway as the 0552 Ply-Pad and the up Hind are still as busy as they've always been, only thing i've noticed is that there are more Advance tickets, there was a rumour that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were going to make the hind an Off-Peak service but I think now that we're on the way out of recession they'll scrap that idea.

Comparing Ply-London journey times there isn't an awful lot in it though, bear in mind that the ASW flights from Plymouth fly via Newquay! after getting to the airport etc and checking in there's bugger all in it.

Also, the trains that stop at the likes of Saltash and Ivybridge can actually create faster services for some people, getting the train from your doorstep to the capital without touching the car!

[moonrakerz]

bear in mind that the ASW flights from Plymouth fly via Newquay!

[woody]

 I think ASW have poached people from their cars rather than the railway
[/quote]
You did not see the recent advertising campaign by ASW recently at Paddington specifically targeting rail users then.I can assure you that many users of ASW particularly to London city are former rail users.The only saving grace for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) at the moment is the very limited air capacity currently available because of Plymouths short runway and the small aircraft that can land there so until that changes ASW will continue to be limited to a niche market and the railways have little to worry about.As for the future who knows.

[Chris2]

ASW do fly via Newquay to London for the Gatwick services but not for London City services.

[vacman]

I think ASW have poached people from their cars rather than the railway

You did not see the recent advertising campaign by ASW recently at Paddington specifically targeting rail users then.I can assure you that many users of ASW particularly to London city are former rail users.The only saving grace for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) at the moment is the very limited air capacity currently available because of Plymouths short runway and the small aircraft that can land there so until that changes ASW will continue to be limited to a niche market and the railways have little to worry about.As for the future who knows.
[/quote]I did indeed see their rather sly advertising campaign, somehow filling our trains with leaflets! but from Cornwall at least, I still see all of the regulars we've always had, albeit mostly travelling on Advance.
Advance fares on the Hind can be got for ^38.50 from Cornwall.

[devon_metro]

what is FC^‡(resolve) patronage like on the Hind like these days? I know it used to be a good loader

[woody]

As regards that ASW advertising campaign last autumn(ish) I remember at the time seeing from a train a huge lineside ASW banner in a farmers field between Westbury and Pewsey exclaiming "London to Plymouth in only 70 minutes.By now you could be there" while the Paddington circle line underground ticket hall area and pedestrien access tunnels were literally plastered with ASW posters for what seemed like several months  proclaiming among other things "London to Cornwall in only 2 hours".Such a high profile campaign must have cost a bomb so presumably they considered it worthwhile.
 Personally as things stand there is enough business to keep both FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and ASW happy.Its a case of "horses for courses" really,if your in a big hurry and your prepared to pay then air has the advantage from Plymouth but if your not in such a hurry and cost/flexibility is a factor then clearly rail is the choice.

[Super Guard]

I think the adverts in the fields "you'd be there by now" (there is one going north on the approach to Tiverton Parkway) are still in place.  Perhaps a little misleading as you can technically arrive at the station with 2 minutes to spare to get on the train, which is not true of any airport (unless you're having a cameo part for easyJet on "Airline"  ).

[devon_metro]

(unless you're having a cameo part for easyJet on "Airline"  ).

"The train was late" 

[vacman]

WOW London to Plymouth in 2 hours? it's only 3 on some trains, so by the time you've checked in and all it's probably quicker by train! The main competition is from Cornwall to London rather than Plymouth.

[woody]

WOW London to Plymouth in 2 hours? it's only 3 on some trains, so by the time you've checked in and all it's probably quicker by train! The main competition is from Cornwall to London rather than Plymouth.

Its the London City flights(only 2 a day) not the Gatwick ones that that are the real alternative to rail for a few.Flight times from Plymouth to London city is only 70 minutes while from Newquay it is 105 minutes.Even with all the air add-on time it is still an attractive proposition for some as the following two quotes from Air South West users I found on their website.
  Claire Whelan works as a Market Insight Manager for an international magazine publishing house in London and frequently uses Air Southwest's London City Service to commute to London.  She said: " The flights are really quick and offer great connections to the tube network.  I work three days a week in London and two days from Cornwall so I've been able to plan my travel requirements and book tickets quite far in advance to get the lowest fares which offer excellent value for money.  The 7pm flights are really useful because I'm able to leave work at 5pm and have plenty of time to catch my flight and still get back to Cornwall earlier than if I'd caught a train at rush hour."

Sally Baxter works for the international HR^▸ (Human Resources) specialists Penna and splits her working week between the head office in London and her home in Plymouth.  She said:
" Air Southwest's flights from my local airport to London City have made a huge difference to me.  I made the decision two and a half years ago to live in the South West and work in London but in my attempt to strike a good work life balance I found that the train was rather hard work. Travelling by air and saving two hours on my Monday morning commute to London means that I can start meetings earlier and generally feel more energized at the start of my working week.  I enjoy the warm welcome I always receive from the cabin-crew and the fact that I'm treated as an individual, not just a ticket number."
 Clearly some people are clearly in denial on this one,personally I think it a case of "you pays your and takes your choice".
 As for the Gatwick flights most people who use them simply connect into other flights at Gatwick.From Plymouth/Newquay there are 4 daily Air South West Gatwick flights plus an additional 3 daily flybe flights from Newquay to Gatwick.Going from Plymouth to London via Gatwick though is clearly not worth the hastle by air the train is clearly better although from Newquay it could be worth the Hastle.

[woody]

Local BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) news in Devon has just announced(5th May 2010) that Air South West is to withdraw its twice daily Newquay/Pymouth/London City flights from the 21st May citing that it has not been able to attract enough passengers from other modes of transport and the financial effects of the current volcanic crisis in Iceland.It claims its established four times daily Newquay/Pymouth/London Gatwick flights are well used and are not effected.(Yet!)