Newquay and Plymouth Airports - their rise and fall - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[qwerty]

16.57 PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) cancelled yesterday.

I noted several people jumping into taxi's "airport please"

[Chris2]

Just out of interest, how many seats are on each os ASW's planes and how many of these services per day do they plan to run?

ASW has a fleet of 5 bombardier Q300, which have 50 seats on board.

They are flying twice daily to London City, and four times daily to Gatwick Airport.

Which means they can take 100 passengers in either direction to London City Airport, and 200 passengers daily to Gatwick Airport, which is 300 passengers in each direction and a total of 600 passengers per day. So a heavily loaded (full and standing) high speed train to Newquay can have that many passengers in just one direction. Plus the cost of the flight is ^29 one way so a return fare of ^58 / ^63 (when taking into account ^5 airport development fee at Newquay). This is cheaper than an off peak return from Newquay which is ^78, but not all there fares are going to be ^29, so an advance purchase train ticket can be cheaper, but it will take longer.

The cheapest tickets available from Newquay to London is ^14.50 one way so a return ticket could cost ^29 without a railcard.

[FarWestJohn]

Now Flybe have started their thrice daily flight from Newquay to Gatwick there is airline competition on the route. They are using 78-seat Bombardier Q400 aircraft. Their non stop flights at the moment for 31st March are showing ^2.84 + taxes each way. The Air South West flights [four a day] have a Plymouth stop in one direction and fly Plymouth - Newquay - Gatwick most of the time. Plymouth airport being near the moor also suffers from poor visibility.

I personally much preferred to use the train before First 'improved' the Mk3s even though it took longer. Now my 'powers that be' want us to return in a day to avoid a night away.

The seats on the aircraft are obviously to a much more sane H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) regime than the train as the seats are fairly comfortable and you can see down the aircraft and are not hemmed in within the limitations of an aircraft tube

I really think the rail industry has to seriously look at itself with reference to modern seating/ layouts/ passenger comfort/taking risk too far etc and to challenge some of these UK^▸ (United Kingdom) only rules. Everyone is so bothered about CYA [cover your arse] risk that no one will do anything soon. Rail competition is the private car and aircraft and you would not want a car with rock hard seats.

If the attractive XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) mk3 refurb complies with modern rules then it again makes one wonder why on earth First mk3s are such a mess.

[Super Guard]

And of course if your flight gets cancelled, i'm sure they'll be ready with a standby plane to get you on your way asap.   

Funnily enough I encountered a lady passenger who should have been flying from Newquay to London? (I think) on Ryanair, and as her flight had been cancelled they washed their hands of her.  She said at the end of the day if her train to London is cancelled she can get the next one, and that TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have a duty to get her to her destination one way or another, whereas her flight ticket was useless.  When I asked if she was able to get a refund, she said, the ticket cost ^1.00.... and it wouldn't be worth the premium rate call to customer services!!

I am sure woody has never flown on a plane that was cancelled or delayed, so i'm sure he/she will be fine 

[devon_metro]

How can the high seat backs and rock hard seats be H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) regulations?

Both XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) managed a refurbishment without this! And at least they actually looked where the windows were before plonking the table seats down!

And Chiltern managed to get >97 % of airline seats in line with the windows. (and 100% of table seats)

here will they all go?

Cotswold line please!

Good for Chiltern then! The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have longer windows, so it would be ridiculous to make every window line up.

I personally find the XC refurb to have quite hard seats, whilst the height of them is better, the legroom is rubbish, and I don't exactly normally have a problem with this.

[Btline]

I personally find the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) refurb to have quite hard seats, whilst the height of them is better, the legroom is rubbish, and I don't exactly normally have a problem with this.

Apparently, XC have reduced legroom (and therefore messed up views) by cramming more seats into their refurb 170s.

I have not been on a XC HST^▸ (High Speed Train) (due to the timings), but I have seen photos. The seats look more comfortable than on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s, but they obviously are not!

[devon_metro]

I find the posture a bit odd, although it's nice to have a good selection of tables and a bit more luggage room.

[Timmer]

I find FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HST^▸ (High Speed Train) seats OK.

You want hard seats - try a three hour trip on a SWT^▸ (South West Trains) '444'.

Now that is painful 

welcome to the forum lukefarley.

[woody]

I think some of you are missing the point I was trying to make.ie that its not where we are now but where we are heading in the 21st century transport wise in the far south west.The limitations of railway infrastructure particularly west of Exeter mean that there is only so much FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can do while for airlines the sky is the limit development wise as it were.Even the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) replacement the Super Express Train order only covers the Padd/Bristol/Swansea services  on FGW.Replacement for Padd/Devon/Cornwall services is only an option,why just an option?
  Also you have to ask why is replacement of the much newer IC225 on the East coast main line a higher priority than replacement of the HST on FGW and then only for definite on Padd/Bristo/Swansea services.The feeling I get is that the far south west is off the Dfts rail radar as it were at a time when the airlines are clearly targeting rails traditional business particularly west of Exeter.I hope I am wrong as I would much prefer to see a genuine 21st railway see off the airlines in the south west but as things stand that^s simply not going to happen here.

[vacman]

IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will be used in cornwall, like i said elswere, they are getting 70 sets for GW^▸ (Great Western), they couldn't possibly use them all for bistols and swansea's, at the moment we got 53 HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s....maths....

[thetrout]

Just out of interest, how many seats are on each os ASW's planes and how many of these services per day do they plan to run?

Seats for 50 Passengers. But they also offer a Business Class service.

The planes they operate are Bombardier DHC8-311

[jakemonkfish]

Don't forget the time spent at the airport before the flight, as well as between landing and getting out of gatwick/london city and discovering that you are stranded in docklands or surrey...extra cost to get to central london 9 especially from gatwick), and thats before fog is considered

[paul7575]

IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will be used in cornwall, like i said elswere, they are getting 70 sets for GW^▸ (Great Western), they couldn't possibly use them all for bistols and swansea's, at the moment we got 53 HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s....maths....

 

A fair proportion of the GW allocation of IEP is only half sets though; the ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender) listed 39 full and 41 half. Although I accept the figures may have changed, we haven't any exact details yet of what proportion of each type will actually be produced AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know).
(Phase 1)
Self powered Full: Interurban 24 
Bi-mode Half: Commuter 38 
(Phase 2)
Self powered Full: Intercity 12. Interurban 3
Bi-mode Half: Commuter 3
Anyway, by the time they need to replace 53 HSTs, who knows what timetable FGW^▸ (First Great Western) might be running? Unless IEP half sets are never running alone, you'd expect they would specify full sets, so which current services are suitable for half sets? Any electrification (yet to be decided) will change the requirement completely anyway.  Also all the IEP numbers quoted are in terms of daily diagrams so there will probably be at least 10% more actual trains, whereas 53 HSTs is the whole fleet.

Paul

[vacman]

Just out of interest, how many seats are on each os ASW's planes and how many of these services per day do they plan to run?

Seats for 50 Passengers. But they also offer a Business Class service.

The planes they operate are Bombardier DHC8-311

50 seats! so lets put this into perspective, it holds 25 less passenger seats than A SINGLE 153!!! bear in mind getting to Newquay, 2 hours check in and arseing about at the other end then it's hardly a competition to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) where you have a travelling chef on most trains serving real food (the new menu looks very good indeed ) toilets that you can actually fit into, more luggage allowence and ^10 to upgrade to FC^‡(resolve) on weekends, yes the business travellers (all 6 of them in Cornwall) may find it more usefull but most people prefer the easy life!

[Btline]

Unfortunately, I think that if you don't have hold luggage (i.e. most business travellers), you can check in 30 mins before departure.

If I had my way, I would introduce a law which states that for all domestic flights, you must turn up and check in, in person, at the airport no later than 3 hours before your flight. (Non - domestic flights not affected)

That would make most domestic air journeys 4+ hours, and would kill a lot of them off - thus reducing emissions and freeing up slots at busy airports for international flights.