Newquay and Plymouth Airports - their rise and fall - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Shazz]

Just for interest Flybe fares will start from ^29 one way under cutting the current Air Southwest offering by ^10.Needless to say Air South West are not happy about Cornwall County Council letting in Flybe at Newquay.With 7 or 8 daily flights from Newquay to Gatwick from mid February one wonders what effect this will have on railway business from Cornwall given that the number of intermediate station stops on many Penzance/Paddington services is now mind boggling.

Not like the council have much of a choice. i'd suspect flybe would get the competition comission involved if they blocked it. And at the end of the day it's in the best interest of the customers, and would lead to flybe getting in anyway...

That and i'm sure it would annoy flybe and make them cut there summer schedule significantly to newquay

[Andy]

Newquay Airport: Ryanair suspends flights until March
Ryanair has suspended its Newquay service to and from Stansted until March, the company announced today.

The low-cost airline blamed the decision on Cornwall County Council's inability to confirm a date when Newquay Airport will re-open.http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/homepagenews/Newquay-Airport-Ryanair-suspends-flights-March-2009/article-540967-detail/article.html

  However BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South West news said this morning that starting from February Exeter based Flybe is planning to introduce a 3 times daily Newquay/Gatwick service in direct competition with Air Southwests existing 5 times daily Newquay/Gatwick flights.

Ryanair are a bunch of to*sers anyway, they really don't give a flying f*ck about their customers at the best of times!

Vacman, noone else sums it up better than you!
 

[woody]

As you say the county say that competition is in the best interest of passengers er customers.

[vacman]

Just for interest Flybe fares will start from ^29 one way under cutting the current Air Southwest offering by ^10.Needless to say Air South West are not happy about Cornwall County Council letting in Flybe at Newquay.With 7 or 8 daily flights from Newquay to Gatwick from mid February one wonders what effect this will have on railway business from Cornwall given that the number of intermediate station stops on many Penzance/Paddington services is now mind boggling.

Advance fares start from ^15.00 with FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or ^9.90 with a railcard.

[eightf48544]

This closure seems like an ideal oportunity for teh pro rail groups in Cornwall to do a little bit of Market Research on why people fly from Newquay to Gatwick.

IF there are going to be 7/8 flights a day form February then even with 50 seat aircrat that's 350/400 seats a day or at least one very full HST^▸ (High Speed Train). The sort of questions I would be asking are

How long does it take from the Newquay Station to Central London Including check in, Gatwick Expreess etc. How long does the through train take.

Where do people who fly come from, do they have a station on the mainline? As they have to drive to Newquay Airport what's the comparable time from their local station to London?

It's obviously cheaper by train given the prices.

This would give them ammunition to challenge FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to provide a faster service from Cornwall perhaps missing out some intermediate stops to directly compete with air. 

The only reason I can see to fly from Newquay to Gatwick, apart from avoiding FGW, is to change at Gatwick for an onward flight. I can't see there being up to 400 people a day from Cornwall wanting to do that.

Of course the major problem is even if a denmand for better faster rail services is found during this research, there isn't the stock available so air will win out over rail.  Pendolinos have virtually killed internal London to Manchester air travel.

[Btline]

And Eurostar has basically killed shorter European flights London - Paris.

Let's get the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) lines electrified,* and at as high a speed as possible, to slash journey times, and compete with air.

*Ok, attach a loco at Par or Plymouth

Surely London to Newquay in 3 hours is possible.

[devon_metro]

And Eurostar has basically killed shorter European flights London - Paris.

Let's get the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) lines electrified,* and at as high a speed as possible, to slash journey times, and compete with air.

*Ok, attach a loco at Par or Plymouth

Surely London to Newquay in 3 hours is possible.

Thats an average speed of 93mph. Not easily achievable!

[Btline]

Ok, 3 hours 30 mins.

Average of 80 mph - should be possible with stops at Reading, Taunton, Exeter, NA, Totnes, Plymouth, Lisk, Bodmin and Par only.

[devon_metro]

Ignoring acceleration/decelleration, if we have 2 minute dwell times, from 3hr30, 3hr12 is spent moving. Thus an average speed between stops of 87.5mph...

[John R]

... including 15mph over the Tamar Bridge and also the curvy section between Exeter and Plymouth. And isn't the maximum line speed under semaphore signalling 90mph?

And of course you have you do have to accelerate and brake to a stand. So 3hrs 30mins is as likely as Gordon Brown admitting he's screwed up the economy.

   

[woody]

I think you have to except that ultimately despite how pro rail we all are here that some parts of the rail system with their Victorian infrastructure and lack of sufficient investment are going to increasingly struggle against inroads by air competition in the 21st century while other parts (ie  the West Coast main line) are more than capable of beating it off.

[Btline]

But the majority of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) main lines could be engineered like the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line).

[John R]

Spare ^9 Billion anyone?

[vacman]

I don't really think Newquay to London is the actual market, it just happens that Newquay is Cornwalls only almost major airport, i'd say most come from the Truro area, Truro station had a footfall of over 1million last year by the way, by cutting out stops we could have an attractive alternative to flying, lets say you live in Truro flying from Newquay - 30 mins drive to Newquay airport, an hour to arse around checking in etc, (I don't actually know how long the flight is??) lets say an hours flight??, then you get to Gatwick, then getting to London an hour by the time you get your luggage, get the Gat express and tube or taxi thats 3 and a half hours.
By train - 5 min drive to station, 4 hours 20 to London then it's just a taxi or tube so it is quite compareable at the moment, but you can gain around 35mins in Cornwall by cutting out stops, the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s should be PNZ-TRU-SAU-BOD-LSK-PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains)-EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains)-RDG^‡(resolve)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) you could probably get a Penzance-Paddington journey time of around 4 and a half hours and under 4 hours from Truro, thats with no expensive infrastructure improvements! If we had a two hourly fast service like that then a two hourly semi-fast like PNZ-SER-CBN-RED-TRU-SAU-PAR-BOD-LSK-PLY-TOT-NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains)-EXD-TVP-TAU^» (Taunton - next trains)-RDG-EXD, the small stations could be served much better with regular stoppers, a Liskeard-Newton Abbot shuttle every hour stopping all stations would mean no more inappropriate stops for HST's at Lostwithiel, Menheniot, St Germans, Saltash and Ivybridge! Hayle would probably have to be an exception for HST's as it probably wouldn't pay to run a unit through West Cornwall

[devon_metro]

What plugs the gap to London at Totnes, Newton Abbot, Tiverton Parkway and Taunton?

Ive been on trains originating from Cornwall where its fairly empty and Newton Abbot and full by Taunton.