Newquay and Plymouth Airports - their rise and fall - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

Let's see the people behind these ideas put up the ^30 million cash first plus the continuing millions required to subsidise running operations into the future as currently there would be very few airlines wishing to risk money on services.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Imagine how many improvements could be made on the line from Plymouth to Exeter for 30 mil.... I wonder what speed the line from Plymouth to Exeter could be pushed upto with investment shorter journey times to London and the north

[woody]

Imagine how many improvements could be made on the line from Plymouth to Exeter for 30 mil.... I wonder what speed the line from Plymouth to Exeter could be pushed upto with investment shorter journey times to London and the north

Even ^30million given the cost of even modest rail improvements these days would not make much difference.The fact is that Brunels "atmosperic caper" left us with a permanently handicapped rail route between Exeter and Plymouth that is virtually unimprovable line speed/journey time wise and therein lies the problem.Had the 1937 Great Western scheme for a dawlish avoiding line involving quadruple tracking from Exminster to Newton Abbot with a 2 mile tunnel through the Halden Hills been completed in 1941 as planned and not been stopped in its tracks by the outbreak of the Second World War,together with a new route that was also surveyed at the time onward from Newton Abbot,bypassing Dainton and Rattery banks to rejoin the existing route near Marley tunnel and all engineered to a minimum 1 mile radius for speed things would have been much different now.But we are where we are.Probably the only way you could speed things up now would be a combination of electrification and tilting trains and thats not any agenda I have heard of yet.So you can see why there are moves to try to reinstate air links from Plymouth whether practical or not."Viable" claim to have access to private capital whereas the railways infrastructure wise rely heavily on the public purse so the chances of making any significant improvements to line speeds this far away from the Great Western main line are virtually Ziltch.I use the First Great Western HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) in Devon Daily.The standard rail journey from Exeter to Plymouth is about 1 hour and to make matters worse puntuality between Penzance/Plymouth/Exeter is an absolute joke with frequent delays and regularly extended journey times beyond an hour.That unfortunately is the current reality of rail travel West of Exeter and is no doubt driving the "Viable" vision.In ideal world I wish I could fast rewind to 1937 and get it sorted but thats not going to happen is it.

[JayMac]

In ideal world I wish I could fast rewind to 1937 and get it sorted but thats not going to happen is it.

Perhaps killing Hitler would need to be the first task if travelling back to 1937!

What paradoxes that may cause I know not. Conversely, maybe if Germany had won WWII^▸ (World War 2 - 1939 to 1945), Teutonic efficiency would've seen GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) original plan brought to fruition. 

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

spoilers

[SandTEngineer]

Well the end of runway radar installation warning lights were switched off yesterday so..............

As a former resident who lived (directly under the flight path) in the top left hand corner of the map in the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter), I can tell you that nobody who lives around the airport will want it back

[woody]

In a letter to the Plymouth Evening Herald today RAOUL WITHERALL who is the chair of "Viable" a group campaigning for the re-opening of Plymouth City Airport which now has very strong local support claims that and I quote from the letter "The good news is we now have a new Plymouth-based private operator ready to reopen the airport and run it profitably in the private sector to see airlinks restored."It seems that the airport campaign is really getting its act together now.
Here is the link to that letter.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/End-defeatism/story-15789832-detail/story.html

The slow rail route west of Exeter and no motorway is always sighted locally as the reason why Plymouth needs an airport and it is not being helped by the Government totally ignoring this part of the Great Western franchise.Here is a typical letter to the local paper and it is a very widely held view in Plymouth now.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Airport-s-loss-hampers-development/story-15702854-detail/story.html

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Airport-s-loss-hampers-development/story-15702854-detail/story.html

[JayMac]

Where was this untapped market for air passengers when ASW were trying to break even?

[woody]

Where was this untapped market for air passengers when ASW were trying to break even?

The lease holder of the airport Sutton Harbour Holdings was a property development company with no experience at all of operating an airline and it soon showed particularly as their property development arm sank into big financial problems.They made sure that when they took on the lease of the airport that it contained an "armagedon clause" that if it became unviable they (a property development company) could close it down.Not surprisingly there then followed what all can I say were some "beeching style" tactics to help the process on its way,gradual withdrawal of routes and flights at awkward times.Say no more nod nod wink wink everyone in Plymouth at least knew what was going on before closure.Sutton harbour Holdings are of course now desperately trying to get the City council to allow them to redevelop the whole airport site but the city council has had to bow to the massive weight of local opinion on the matter and has now said that the airport land is still designated for airport use in the local land plan.Very often in life you dont value something until you loose it and lets face it we all know that investment wise in the 21st century the Great Western franchise is essentially the Paddington/Bristol/South Wales axis now while the far south west particularly west of Exeter is largely ignored in the big scheme of things.So it surely cannot come as a total surprise now that someone wants make a go of the airport.

[woody]

PLYMOUTH Airport could start operating again almost immediately if the lease can be sorted out, says the company campaigning to reopen it.

Raoul Witherall, a director of Viable, met with the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s aviation regulator, the CAA^» (Civil Aviation Authority - about), at its Gatwick offices last week.

He said the purpose of the meeting was to introduce Viable's proposals to reopen and operate the airport.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Flights-possible-lease-sorted/story-15857530-detail/story.html

[TonyK]

As an occasional hobby pilot, I'm all for airfields staying open. The runway is, IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), much shorter than Exeter and Newquay, but certainly fine for the turboprops.

[woody]

As an occasional hobby pilot, I'm all for airfields staying open. The runway is, IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), much shorter than Exeter and Newquay, but certainly fine for the turboprops.

I understand their business model involves a 40 metre runway extension to allow the use of the smaller jets.

[TonyK]

Still only 1200m, not enough for a Gulfstream or Lear 35. Might manage a Cessna Citation, though.

[SandTEngineer]

Well I certainly don't know of any support for reopening from the residents around the airport (I'll declare an interest as I'm one of them ). Since flying stopped its been lovely and quite!  Plymouth has a pretty good train service compared with some places and I don't complain about it despite having been a regular user for the past 26 years. Many years ago I used to make an odd flight or two if going overseas from Heathrow but on a few occasions can remember having to wait up to four hours for the onward connection. So who says the train is slower .  Personally I don't see how the 'new' business model will pay as most of the former flights used to only be 50% full at the best of times.

Oh and by the way, try making a comparison between the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Plymouth timetable and that of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) of some 40 years ago in the early 1970s and you will really see how the train service has improved.

[vacman]

So what if it does re-open, won't effect the railway really, may take away about 1% of the business which i'm sure FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can cope with!