Buffet Update

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

Now, please don't flame me, but Ollie is quite right: for whatever reason, there is a 'shortage' of three HST^▸ (High Speed Train) buffet cars.  Andrew Griffiths confirmed that to us, at the recent FOSBR^▸ (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways) meeting in Bristol. 

[r james]

So there are no HST^▸ (High Speed Train) buffet cars they can acquire then to make up for the short fall?  Is it the plan for this issue to be resolved somehow?

[John R]

Can't work this out. Every set was built with a buffet car, and as XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) won't have them in their 5 sets, that must leave some spare. Unless some were written off in the 3 crashes and not replaced (could buy that theory with the 2004 crash as stock was lying idle by then, but probably not the earlier two).

[Super Guard]

I know of at least one FGW^▸ (First Great Western) buffet involved in a crash that is still running today (actually this buffet was in two crashes and is still running, along with a rear power car that was repaired and sent back out into service!  )

[Chris from Nailsea]

I'm sorry to raise it, but I think one was destroyed at Ufton Nervet: see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/7072672.stm

"One carriage rolled over, the buffet car was bent double and the family coach in which most of the victims were sitting slid along on its side."

C. 

[willc]

Er, did anyone read my post yesterday or Sprintermeister's from Sunday?

Here is a picture from the Long Marston open day last month showing... two EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about)-liveried HST^▸ (High Speed Train) buffets, presumably from sets that went to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).

http://www.jamespower.fotopic.net/p51051219.html

And it was never as easy as one buffet per two power cars, there were always spare power cars in the fleet. At the moment FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has something like 118 Class 43s to 53 or 54 sets of HST trailers.

[dog box]

Were some buffets converted a few years ago to form extra First Class coaches for project Rio??

[r james]

I feel that oneday, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) will regret not buying the 5 buffet cars, to add to thier services at a later date.

Im guessing the reason there are more power cars then coach sets is the reason why so much loco hauled mk3 stock is being converted to HST^▸ (High Speed Train) use. 

[willc]

I feel that oneday, XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) will regret not buying the 5 buffet cars, to add to thier services at a later date

Good job for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) that they didn't, or there wouldn't be any available to plug the gaps in the fleet.

If XC think they know better than everyone else about buffets in HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) - and Voyagers - that's their business, but it surely can't be coincidence that both FGW and EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) have pulled back from the brink on this question.

[12hoursunday]

Er, did anyone read my post yesterday or Sprintermeister's from Sunday?

Here is a picture from the Long Marston open day last month showing... two EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about)-liveried HST^▸ (High Speed Train) buffets, presumably from sets that went to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).

Actually they are in Midland Mailine livery!

I feel that oneday, XC will regret not buying the 5 buffet cars, to add to thier services at a later date.

And XC lease these trailers don't they?

[willc]

Buffets were discussed at the Central customer panel in July.

NHE is Nick Hebborn, Head of On-board Service. KF is Katharine Fee, the panel chairman. JB is James Burt, Director of Customer (Service? - the minutes do just say customer).

Not sure I'm much clearer about their intentions, despite reading this.

"KF asked about the 2+7 decision and the removal of the buffets?
NHE advised that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have decided not to remove the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) buffets. 14 will have the smaller or mini buffet, others will have the current buffet car refreshed. All will have adequate equipment. We will not have a ^trolley only^ service for the HSTs but will develop a trolley service as support, not a replacement, for the buffet.
JB added that FGW would have to lease a floating vehicle whilst refurbishment of large and mini buffets is being undertaken.
KF asked if there would be more seats?
NHE explained that there would be no more seats but FGW have to decide whether they will be First Class or Standard
A member asked if all trains would therefore be 8 carriages?
JB stated that some will still be 7 with a trolley service
KF asked where will these run?
NHE replied that it would primarily be Oxford
JB explained that this allows the potential in the future for 8 carriages with extra seats put in. Recommendation is for 14 x 2+7 seats, with all others to be 8 carriages. 2+7 trains will have a mini buffet
KF asked will these mainly be on Bristol trains?
NHE confirmed that this would not necessarily be the case
JB added the plan is to put these less seated trains in places where the seat reduction will not be noticed. Regrettably it has taken six months to get to this decision; original plan would not work, as it did not put customers first. Recommendation is to spend ^1/2 million on each buffet."

[Btline]

Very confusing. At one point they say that all HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will have buffets. Then they say that some Oxford HSTs will be trolley!

And why are they going to run 2+7 HSTs (including buffet so really 2+6) when overcrowding is getting worse?

[devon_metro]

Very confusing. At one point they say that all HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will have buffets. Then they say that some Oxford HSTs will be trolley!

And why are they going to run 2+7 HSTs (including buffet so really 2+6) when overcrowding is getting worse?

They aren't doing anything like that.

Believe a mini-buffet counter will be inserted in some coach Es

[eightf48544]

All this goes to show what a mess the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have made of rolling stock procurement and allocation.

As other threads on this board have highlighted everyone considers the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to be an excellent long distance train (high desity excepted), especialy when there were more tables and fewer airline seats. Long distance trains need buffets/resturant cars.

Turning them into commuter trains is not what they built for. The fact they can actually perform reasonably well on such services is tribute the brilliance of their original design.

Tickering with the buffets is a bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titantic. A fairly pointless exercise. This is mainly because there is no way of guarenteeing that a set with full buffet will always be available for the Swanseas and West Country services where it is required as this would require extra sets of each type to ensure the right type could always be rostered for a particular type of service.

What is required is new intemediate distance commuter unit preferably electric to work the Oxfords etc. In the meantime, before we get electrification to at least Oxford, wasn't there something called an Adelante?

Then the HSTs can go back to running Intercity. Provided loops are put in to allow fasts to over take stoppers.

[Btline]

This "mini cafe" idea in coach E is a mad idea.

Even less seats for commuters!

And as eightXXXX said, what happens when the 1505 is given a cafe in E on a summer Saturday?

Use the normal ones. If there are none left, convert a spare coach or build a new one!