Buffet Update

[whole diary]

[oooooo]

BRITAIN^S biggest rail union today welcomed a dramatic U-turn by First Great Western on plans to scrap buffet cars on high-speed trains, as 700 catering staff, train managers and senior conductors voted for strike action.

Link Below:

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=108697&int1stParentNodeID=89732

[Mookiemoo]

BRITAIN^S biggest rail union today welcomed a dramatic U-turn by First Great Western on plans to scrap buffet cars on high-speed trains, as 700 catering staff, train managers and senior conductors voted for strike action.

Link Below:

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=108697&int1stParentNodeID=89732

As much  as i welcome it - I dont like the slant that it is over safe working conditions

how about what passengers want

Whilst I accept that on SOME overcrowded peak trains it ma y be - for the vast majority I doub it

[The SprinterMeister]

BRITAIN^S biggest rail union today welcomed a dramatic U-turn by First Great Western on plans to scrap buffet cars on high-speed trains, as 700 catering staff, train managers and senior conductors voted for strike action.

Link Below:

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=108697&int1stParentNodeID=89732

Slight distorsion of facts I understand. 47% of those ballotted actually voted.

[John R]

Agree wholeheartedly. There was a similar issue when the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) were threatening to strike over the use of managers as guards. In reality they were concerned about their members' jobs (which is a perfectly legitimate thing for a union to be concerned about) dressed up as a safety concern.

But let's be pleased that on another issue FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have seen sense. So if EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW have seen the light on buffet cars, how about it XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))?

[Timmer]

But let's be pleased that on another issue FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have seen sense. So if EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW have seen the light on buffet cars, how about it XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))?

Yes excellent news which again shows FGW are listening to it's passengers and it's staff.

Regards XC removing buffets from Voyagers, I still think that will go ahead because they need every available space to add extra seats that are desperately needed on XC services.

[Btline]

But let's be pleased that on another issue FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have seen sense. So if EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW have seen the light on buffet cars, how about it XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))?

Yes excellent news which again shows FGW are listening to it's passengers and it's staff.

Regards XC removing buffets from Voyagers, I still think that will go ahead because they need every available space to add extra seats that are desperately needed on XC services.

Have to agree here. Excellent news about FGW buffets, but more seats/luggage space is more of a priority on XC voyagers/turbostars (although the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) should have buffets).

What FGW failed to realise is that if a service is busy, a trolley won't be able to fit through the train.

[12hoursunday]

BRITAIN^S biggest rail union today welcomed a dramatic U-turn by First Great Western on plans to scrap buffet cars on high-speed trains,

Not really a u-turn though as Andrew Haines stopped the wholesale removal of the buffet cars days after taking the helm. If it wasn't for him there would be 20+ sets running around as I type this. All that said though the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) may have had an influence over the decision to keep these vehicles. As I gather the un refurbished buffet will be refreshed to contain a smaller buffet unit and will have extra standard class seats.

Agree wholeheartedly. There was a similar issue when the RMT were threatening to strike over the use of managers as guards. In reality they were concerned about their members' jobs (which is a perfectly legitimate thing for a union to be concerned about) dressed up as a safety concern.

Now then lets get something straight here.
It takes 6 weeks to train a guard to be able to carry his/her daily duties. Training includes Personal Track Safety, The in's and out of the rule book, Fire, Evacuation to name just a few of the operational parts of their jobs. After passing out they need to learn the railway that they will be travelling over on a daily basis which include getting to know Stations, Gradients, Crossings, Tunnels, Curverture of the lines and a whole host of other things. All this training helps you lot to go where you go to on daily basis safely. So when an office girl has two days to take in what a Train Manager/ Conductor has 10 or more weeks to learn it beggars belief that you can say that the RMT threat to strike over something that is dressed up as a safety concern

Slight distorsion of facts I understand. 47% of those ballotted actually voted.

At least the RMT listens to the 47% of their members unlike the Association you are connected with!

[12hoursunday]

But let's be pleased that on another issue FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have seen sense. So if EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) and FGW have seen the light on buffet cars, how about it XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))?

Yes excellent news which again shows FGW are listening to it's passengers and it's staff.

Regards XC removing buffets from Voyagers, I still think that will go ahead because they need every available space to add extra seats that are desperately needed on XC services.

I think you'll find there will be no extra seats as the whole coach will be removed on XC services. Or should I say has been removed.

[Btline]

Not on Voyagers!

I think that on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train), they should reinstate the buffet coach - with extra second class seats.

[Karl]

Morning

Agreed to all.

My ideal solution for every single HST^▸ (High Speed Train) set would be,
power car + 1 first + Buffet + 7 second + power car.
The reason for taking out a first coach is especially
on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), most people are on a buget holiday and most
will travel second.  So more of these to eliminate or
limit overcrowding.  There is a limited amount of
first at one end of the buffet coach anyway, so
really its one and quarter first!

To be honest I don't know how espcially XC are getting
away with not running a buffet coach.  You can't drink
the tap water and water is a basic human reqruirement
and you can't just rush off to a cafe at a station stop
without risking missing your train.  Ok you can buy it
before you board, granted, but on a 8+ hour journey
you would run out even with a bag of goodies, so a
buffet is needed!  Same with food.

Regards

Karl. 

[r james]

Have FGW^▸ (First Great Western) got enough buffet cars though?  I thought one of the issues was that they hadnt got enough buffer cars to put into every HST^▸ (High Speed Train), hence why some have been running around with no buffer service at all?

WIll they be able to covert some of the MK3 buffet stock which sits round doing nothing?

 Also, are there any buffet cars which Xc could actually use?? 

[John R]

To be honest I don't know how espcially XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) are getting
away with not running a buffet coach.  You can't drink
the tap water and water is a basic human reqruirement
and you can't just rush off to a cafe at a station stop
without risking missing your train.  Ok you can buy it
before you board, granted, but on a 8+ hour journey
you would run out even with a bag of goodies, so a
buffet is needed!  Same with food.

Regards

Karl. 

There's always the trolley service, which will be replenished enroute. (Not that I'm advocating the change, far from it, but I don't think your argument for retention holds water.)

[Karl]

Afternoon

John R, I don't quite understand your statement at
the end, sorry its not making a lot of sense to me?

But if its regarding water, then yes it is a basic
human requirement,  no TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) can expect people to go
without at least water for 5+ hours.  Would you pay
the fare at todays prices where you have nothing?

If its to do with the trolley service, I'm not
against them on shorter services, i.e Penzance to
Exeter, but on longer services then no, again as per
my last sentence in the above paragraph.  On long
hauls they will just get in the way more than anything
else.  This brings me onto another point of once when
I cought a train to Newton Abbot and we had a trolley
service on a c158, the bloke pushing it would not
come down the train at all until we were coming into a
station stops (people trying to get off and trying to
get bags e.t.c.), which was really agrovating and I
can't see that working on a HST^▸ (High Speed Train)!

Also some things that nark me off is at least three
trains that I have been on in a month have not had
a buffet attendent at all, so no buffet from Penzance
to Plymouth (sometimes longer), they only seem to have
half the stock that they advertise fom Penzance until
restock at Plymouth so haven't got half the stuff you
ask for or not at all, plus incredibly long times the
buffet is closed (more than once), for a crew change
e.t.c.

But all in all I would understand and agree with the
proposed strike and would understand it if people
boycotted the trains for not having a suitable buffet
coach, if one was to happen that is!

Regards

Karl.

There's always the trolley service, which will be
replenished enroute. (Not that I'm advocating the
change, far from it, but I don't think your argument
for retention holds water.)

[John R]

What I meant was I don't think the railways are under any obligation to provide any sort of refreshments however long the journey. And in any case, since XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) will still be providing a trolley service, there will be the facility to purchase food and water, even without a buffet car. Therefore, even if there was such a stipulation, the facilities provided by XC will meet them.

Don't forget a lot of other services run for hours with only a trolley (Liverpool - Norwich - 5 1/2 hours, and only with a trolley for half of that), and many run for hours with nothing (Shrewsbury - Swansea).

But I agree that it's highly regrettable that they are abolishing them.

[IndustryInsider]

Going back to the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Buffet farce over the last year or so, what a good idea that is now being mooted. Refurb (sorry 'Refresh') the unrefurbished buffet vehicles and provide a smaller buffet (perhaps the same size as the 180's Refresca Cafe Bar or slightly bigger) and then have around 30-40 extra standard class seats. I assume the vehicle will be turned round in formation so that the new, smaller buffet still sits between Standard and First Class accommodation.

End result: More standard class seats at the loss of a few first class seats (two carriages worth is more than enough of the majority of affected trains). You retain catering facilities which remain important on Bristol's, Cheltenham's and Cotswold Line services.

The only loss is that the 5 minute performance gain (which wouldn't have been reflected in the timetable anyway) on a typical Paddington-Bristol service you have by removing the heaviest carriage in the formation is lost. However, we all know that claim was bobbins anyway as the overall train weight is only reduced by around 39 tonnes (or is that tons, i've always been confused by that!) as the buffet car, despite being the heaviest vehicle is only 5 tonnes heavier than the others and only accounts for 14% of the total trains weight (excluding the power cars). The actual time saving would be nearer 1 or 2 minutes I would guess?

What were Ms. Forster's regime taking?