Dawlish Avoiding Line - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[bobm]

From a news release on the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) website

We will be doing a number of things to celebrate the opening of the Dawlish line and supporting the return of rail services to and from Devon and Cornwall.

[John R]

As I said in my last post.
When Dawlish reopens it will have been shut for over 2 months.

Any decent business would sign loudly  and have some news worthy special events.
to spread the word.
What have FGW^▸ (First Great Western) got planned?
Anything or Nothing!

I have little faith in the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s as they allowed the "Inter-City" name to fade away.

Inter-City was in the top 10 most commonly remembered brand names, alongside Coke-Cola, and a name so well known is worth 100s of ^millions.

I think of all the changes that privatisation brought, the loss of Inter-City would not be highest on my list of priorities.

Any "decent business" would wait until it was absolutely confirmed by Network Rail that the line is reopening before making a big splash. Having seen some of the work still going on to stabilise the cliffs I'm not surprised that they are waiting. Don't forget Network Rail predicted the Hastings line would be open a couple of weeks ago but it hasn't happened yet as the embankment hasn't stabilised despite all the work done. Though I suppose BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) would have sorted all that out by now as well?

[paul7575]

As I said in my reply, why single out just FGW^▸ (First Great Western)? What have other businesses got planned also? Nothing I can see either....

SWT^▸ (South West Trains) and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) supported the Botley line re-opening with a routine points failure at Fareham tunnel junction.  Just to be sure they got sufficient media coverage, a couple of days later they had a ceremonial broken rail...   

Paul

[paul7575]

Inter-City was in the top 10 most commonly remembered brand names, alongside Coke-Cola, and a name so well known is worth 100s of ^millions.

Probably the same sort of completely unsubstantiated '^millions' as Devon and Cornwall businesses have supposedly 'lost'...

Paul

[John R]

Though, and at the risk of digressing, there are plenty of examples of millions being spent on brand advertising, only for a takeover to wipe out all the benefit. Two that come to mind are Cornhill's sponsorship of test cricket over many years, only to be taken over by Allianz. And also in the Insurance sector, who remembers the very clever Guardian (brand logo an owl) phone number of 282820. They spent millions on tv on that, only to be taken over and the brand (and presumably the number) extinguished.

[smokey]

The loss of the Inter-City trading name wasn't a smart move and I agree with Dark Star.

I seem to remember that when Great Western Holdings took over from Inter-City Great Western that they were the only TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to retain the Inter-City name on the coaching stock.

[anthony215]

I would very much like to see a relaunch of the Intercity brand especially now on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) with the half hourly Bristol - London express services  taking under 90 minutes.

Certainly I think it will help attract more custom

[John R]

Be real - even if it was a (minor) failure of privatisation that the brand was dropped, does anyone really think that nearly 20 years on its resurrection would attract more custom?  From what I can gather (various other threads will testify), FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is not exactly struggling to fill its standard class seats.

And I'm not sure about the "especially now ...services taking under 90 minutes" as services to both Parkway and Temple Meads are a lot slower than in the days when the Intercity brand was at its fore.  Not wishing to reopen a debate held many times on the forum, but the "especially now" implies there's been an improvement of late, when there hasn't been.

[JayMac]

Not an improvement in journey time perhaps, but there has been an improvement in frequency, regularity and connectivity in the privatised era. I'm no fan of the UKs^▸ (United Kingdom) privatisation model, but I can't argue with the abundance of services we have now, compared to the last days of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)).

Intermediate stations between Bristol and London have a far better 'InterCity' service than was ever the case in BR days. Added to that, many of the smaller locations that feed into Bristol have more than one peak time HST^▸ (High Speed Train) via the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) to and from London and points in between.

Whether its 90 minutes or 100 minutes end to end makes little difference I think. Regular clockface service patterns are more important in attracting and keeping custom.

[onthecushions]

Be real - even if it was a (minor) failure of privatisation that the brand was dropped, does anyone really think that nearly 20 years on its resurrection would attract more custom?  From what I can gather (various other threads will testify), FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is not exactly struggling to fill its standard class seats.

Yes, absolutely.

A brand image conveys a product description, with common features across the goods or services offered.

IC^▸ (Inter City) did and would do just that, speed, business customers, service, on board food preparation, city centre terminals, off peak for VFR.

It also helps to decide  on traction, rolling stock etc as commonality yields economies of scale.

The same holds for NSE^▸ (Network South East) but less so for PSS^▸ (Provincial Sector Services) as these have a more regional flavour.

Does anyone think that London Transport is an unnecessary brand?

OTC

[alexross42]

Apologies if this has already been posted (though a search yielded no results) : Kilbride Group's comment on the Dawlish Line situation (From 7th Feb) and how their project could be part of the bigger alternative line solution:

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/docs/view_news.asp?nid=55

The recent closure of the rail line at Dawlish in Devon has highlighted again the fragility of the rail connections for passengers and freight to Cornwall and South Devon from Exeter.

Kilbride have set up a project in Tavistock, West Devon, which will see the reinstatement of the first part of the old fast route from Exeter to Cornwall, closed by Beeching, which would avoid the Dawlish line route. The Bere Alston to Tavistock Rail Project will be funded by the housing development in Tavistock for which a planning application has been submitted by Kilbride^s selected Residential Developer, Bovis Homes. The S106 Agreement will set aside funds for the rail reinstatement costs from Bere Alston to Tavistock.

If successful, the reinstatement of the remaining Tavistock to Okehampton section would complete the restoration of the original mainline route thereby providing at least a diversionary route to the Dawlish line.

A number of critical decisions are being made in the next few weeks and it is vital all parties continue to work closely together to move the Bere Alston to Tavistock project on as quickly as possible.

For further information see:

www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock

Or Contact

Peter Frost
Managing Director, Kilbride Rail

07768 955013

Also note the 'Critical decisions being made in the next few weeks' comment.

[ChrisB]

Also note the 'Critical decisions being made in the next few weeks' comment.

"From 7th Feb?...Chances are these have been taken....("in the next few weeks" - we're now in April)

[grahame]

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/new-Devon-rail-route-away-Dawlish-disaster-South/story-21017710-detail/story.html :

CREATING a secondary, inland rail route to avoid Dawlish could spell "disaster" for South Devon, says Totnes MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Sarah Wollaston.

... snip ...

Opening an alternative route through Okehampton between Exeter and Plymouth would hit South Devon travellers and businesses hard, she said.

Hmmm ... wouldn't it be a closure of the existing route rather than the addition of an alternative that would effect Totnes and Torbay, or have I missed something?

[onthecushions]

The vested interest lobbies seem to be gearing up to stop the reopening of the Okehampton route. Devon CC was on the HoC Select Committee (on TV ch 81) opposing it.

Who would now say that the Waterloo - Exeter Central line threatened the Berks and Hants route?

Or that Tavistock and Okehampton wouldn't prove to be well used railheads?

I suspect that a proper reinforced sea wall abutting the line West of Dawlish station is all that is needed locally as it has done further up.

Storms will always close a coastal line for a few hours, just with flying debris, that's when an alternative is needed.

I'd love to watch a webcam of a high sea mixing it with 25kV OHLE!

OTC

[Red Squirrel]

Thanks for the tip-off about debate on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Parliament - I watched the whole Select Committee session on iPlayer last night (and stayed up far too late as a result). All interesting stuff, though presumably things have moved on a bit since that session was recorded on 25th Feb.

I don't think it is fair to say that Devon CC oppose the Okehampton route. There was some discussion around the terms 'alternative' and 'additional'; the Torbay lobby is rightly vociferous in demanding that the Dawlish route must remain, but did not oppose the Okehampton route as an additional option - they just didn't think it would be possible to justify the cost.

The only person who sought to dismiss Okehampton altogether was Adrian Sanders, the Torbay MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) - but again I think that was simply because he can't see the funding being made available for both routes, and he wants to be certain that there is a long-term commitment to the Dawlish route's future.

Incidentally, Patrick Hallgate (NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s Western Route Managing Director) cited that figure of ^700-^800 million to rebuild the Okehampton route, but made it clear that as far as he was concerned all options were on the table. Does anyone have access to the report that came up with that costing? Was there any particular reason for specifying platinum rails?