Dawlish Avoiding Line - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[alexross42]

If one of the option that doesn't go via Okehampton is chosen it should be made a priority to re-open the branch line to Okehampton to passenger traffic.


Guy

 

A certain degree of emphasis seems to be placed on giving North Cornwall/Central West Devon access to the rail network - this would certainly provide that and also reduce the amount of traffic on the A30 that's otherwise travelling to Crediton, Exeter or Tiverton to connect with it there.

[Kernow Otter]

Another batch of 'progress pictures' from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page).


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26356917

[Lee]

If the intention of NR^» (Network Rail - home page) option A is to upgrade the entire route from Cowley Bridge to St Budeaux via Crediton, Okehampton & Tavistock to all-singing, all-dancing mainline status, and do it for between ^9-12 million per mile all inclusive, then is that necessarily bad value? After all, the latest figures suggest Bere Alston-Tavistock coming in at ^4.7 million per mile with optimism bias.

Whether it would represent better overall  value than the other options is another matter, of course.

[Red Squirrel]

Does anyone know how many days per year, on average, the Dawlish route is closed due to weather or damage?

[ChrisB]

Quite. Very few.

But it's the *only* route in. If it wasn't, the business case would be very different.

[Red Squirrel]

My reason for asking was this: we all understand why the Dawlish route was retained in favour of the Okehampton line, but do we understand the full business case behind the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s plans for the DAL? Did the GWR have running rights over the LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) route? If not, then it's easy to see why they wanted to secure their own route.

[exeterkiwi]

Yes the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)  had run trains over the LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) route from Exeter to Plymouth via Okehampton but I think it was driver training or when the Dawlish line had issues. I think most of the trains went via the Teign Valley.line if the Dawlish sea wall track was out

[paul7575]

Does anyone know how many days per year, on average, the Dawlish route is closed due to weather or damage?

Less than one day per year, I reckon, averaged over a long period of 150 years or more.   A website here has provided a list, no idea of its provenance though:

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2014/dawlish-rail-disruption/

Paul

[anthony215]

As an example, a gradient of 1 in 38 (Dainton) used to be regarded as the limit, or near to it. Lickey is 1 in 37, and Wikipedia claims "The Lickey Incline is the steepest sustained adhesion-worked gradient on a British standard gauge railway".  But Wikipedia is wrong, I think; there are gradients on 1 in 28 on the line from St. Pancras to Ebbsfleet.

I think Network would most likely be unwilling to put an definate figure on reopening the Tavistok - Okehampton line untill they have have had a good look at the condition of the trackbed along the such as the bridges etc.

As for gradients I would certainly be interested in what the limit is especially when you look east from Stratford International and see the line dropping as the descend into tunnel.

Of course I do wonder if the government is going to be serious about a line to avoid Dawlish and we are still waiting the Portishead an Henbury lines to be re-opened the track is already in place and in use in the case of the latter

[exeterkiwi]

Hi


I have come across this interesting article on the rail forum web site http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=96306

which has a link to a gradient map
http://www.townend.me/files/southdevon.pdf

Guy

[ChrisB]

I think Network would most likely be unwilling to put an definate figure on reopening the Tavistok - Okehampton line untill they have have had a good look at the condition of the trackbed along the such as the bridges etc.

And the Government has indicated that they'll pay....

[Red Squirrel]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) have posted this timelapse video on YouTube - impressive stuff...

[AMLAG]

a) I don't know the Exeter to Plymouth via Okehampton route, but I did note with concern that some senior figures are evaluating it as an extra way to Plymouth based on the time taken by the few through trains that ran in the final, rundown days of the line, with lots of stops and start, rather than the time taken on it when it was a mainline, or the time that would be taken on it were it a new mainline with modern trains.

The above extract from a recent post by 'Grahame' reporting some highlights of the TWSW^» (TravelWatch SouthWest - website) Meeting at Taunton on 1/3/14 prompts me to give the following information  on Plymouth/Exeter St D journey times via both Southern & Western routes applicable in 1967:-
Plymouth(North Road) to Exeter St D (Via Okehampton) by 1040 Plymouth to Brighton (this train last ran on 4/3/67;D8xx 'Warship' with load 9 Mk I incl Buffet Car) calling Keyham, Tavistock North (1115), Okehampton (1143) and Exeter St D (1213) ie Ply-Exe in 93 mins., does not compare too unfavourably with the then generally 70-75 mins. best times for NON stop Plymouth to Exeter trains via Dawlish. 

[34104]

Good point.In a book called Bulleids Pacifics,a historical account of the life and times of the said locomotives by D.W.Winkworth,there is a log of a run made by a Battle of Britain locomotive carrying 10 coaches from ESD to Devonport King Road [probably about 1 mile from Plymouth North Road] in 1954 stopping at Okehampton,Tavistock and Bere Alston.The booked timetable gave a timing of 90 minutes,the actual time taken was a few seconds over 80 minutes.The train seemed to be at less than optimum speed in the Newton St Cyres-Crediton area too-a top speed of 54 mph was given in the log and i know for a fact that considerably higher speeds can be attained in that region.As you say,with non stop running, modern traction and engineering techniques,then it would surely be possible to improve greatly on timings from previous eras and it it is to be hoped that would be taken into account in any fair and open minded analysis of the merits of the LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) line in comparison to the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

[ChrisB]

He also said that non-stop running wasn't an option as trains need to be full-ish on arrival into/out of  London to bolster the business case. He couldn't recommend spending loads of money just for trains arriving a quarter empty. So if you're carrying from Dawlish / Teignmouth & the Torbay area, you need to stop & pick upother pax elsewhere.

He reckoned the Okehampton route would add an hour to the journey time, and for that reason very few would choose it over Dawlish repaired. He thought it better value to make Dawlish far more weather & sea proof than spend millions on an avoiding route, other than possibly a slower diversionary route.