Dawlish Avoiding Line - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[chopper1944]

I have recently reread The GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in the 20th Century by OS^▸ (Ordnance Survey) Nock first published in 1964.
I was aware that there was something about a Dawlish cut-off line, there is on page 142.
I quote:-
"The picturesque line along the sea wall between Dawlish and Teignmouth was becoming so crowded as to be an embarrassment,
and to provide relief, and to give non-stopping trains a clear run, a new cut-off line was proposed from Dawlish Warren direct to
Newton Abbot tunnelling under Haldon Down.
Beyond Newton Abbot a new fast-running express route was proposed to the north of the present line, by passing the extremely
awkward gradients leading to Dainton tunnel, avoiding the sharply curved approaches to Totnes, and rejoining the present line at
high level near the summit of the Rattery incline.
With an alignment and grading designed for heavy modern traffic, a great amount of time could be saved, wear and tear of locomotives
much reduced and a great deal of double-heading avoided. Unfortunately neither of these interesting by pass lines got beyond the
proposed stage"
Think of it if these lines had been built what we would now be talking about to say nothing of the time from from Paddington to Plymouth being greatly reduced.
However they were not and the need is now to repair the Dawlish line asap and to have a sensible discussion for the future.

[Umberleigh]

I rather think that proposed diversionary routes which go what is perceived to be too close to, or through, the Powderham estate of Lord Courtenay may be considered as complete non-starters.

That'd be the Lord Courtenay whose ancestor, the 10th Earl of Devon, put up a certain I. K. Brunel on the estate when he was building the South Devon Railway. And whose ancestor was one of the directors of the Bristol & Exeter and South Devon Railways.

Different peer, different times I agree. My suggestion is to tunnel under the western edge of the estate and have the line run to the west of Kenton. Although selling some land might help the current Earl of Devon's finances.

And also had his own personal station where the Powderham foot crossing is now

[Kernow Otter]

I wonder what the combined folk of Teignmouth, Dawlish, Dawlish Warren and Starcross think of the concept of a 2 hourly Class 153 "hoover" being adequate for their needs?..

It is deemed suitable enough for the majority of Cornwall Mainline Services........

I can't see any two hour gaps in the normal timetable for Penzance - Plymouth, not even on a Sunday. And aren't the services not operated by HST^▸ (High Speed Train) provided by Class 150s?

Not at all mainline stations though.

[exeterkiwi]

I may of missed the route option but a station for Teighnmouth could be built between tunnel 2 and 3. Both Dawlish and Dawlish Warren if the DAL was built .
The Exminster route and  Dawlish still could have a station  on the new railway line.

[Lee]

I wonder what the combined folk of Teignmouth, Dawlish, Dawlish Warren and Starcross think of the concept of a 2 hourly Class 153 "hoover" being adequate for their needs?..

It is deemed suitable enough for the majority of Cornwall Mainline Services........

I can't see any two hour gaps in the normal timetable for Penzance - Plymouth, not even on a Sunday. And aren't the services not operated by HST^▸ (High Speed Train) provided by Class 150s?

Not at all mainline stations though.

Thats very different from your original assertion though, isnt it?

The fact remains that the majority of "Cornwall Mainline Servces" are not 2-hourly, nor are the majority of "Cornwall Mainline Services" operated by a single Class 153 unit.

[JayMac]

David Cameron, answering a question from Oliver Colvile MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) (Con. Plymouth Sutton & Devonport) spoke at Prime Minister's Question Time on 12/02/2014 (at 25:45 on the linked video) about the desire to have a 3 hour journey time between Plymouth and London.

That, I feel, can only be realistically achieved by building a DAL and possibly looking at alternative new build between Newton Abbot (Aller Junction) and Plymouth, taking out the worst of the gradients and curves over the Devon banks.

But NOT avoiding Totnes and Ivybridge. 

[Lee]

One suspects that Dave is thinking more in the hope of the current line being fixed & holding, as 3 hour Plymouth to London is perfectly possible now (in normal circumstances) - the debate has always been whether the adverse impact on service levels elsewhere would be acceptable.

[Southern Stag]

There is already one service timed for 3 hours between Plymouth and London. The 0844 Penzance-London Paddington which leaves Plymouth at 1044 and arrives at London Paddington at 1344.

[Tim]

might London to Plymouth in 3 hours be achieved more easily by upping the speed limit on the Reading to Taunton line which is nice and straight and has few stops for the fast services but never rises about 110mph?

[brooklea]

might London to Plymouth in 3 hours be achieved more easily by upping the speed limit on the Reading to Taunton line which is nice and straight and has few stops for the fast services but never rises about 110mph?

It's nice enough, but I don't think that straight is very appropriate word to describe much of the Berks and Hants line...

[Tim]

might London to Plymouth in 3 hours be achieved more easily by upping the speed limit on the Reading to Taunton line which is nice and straight and has few stops for the fast services but never rises about 110mph?

It's nice enough, but I don't think that straight is very appropriate word to describe much of the Berks and Hants line...

Ok I stand corrected although it isn't /that/ curvy.  I had assumed that it was the level crossings that kept the line speed down not the curves.

[4064ReadingAbbey]

might London to Plymouth in 3 hours be achieved more easily by upping the speed limit on the Reading to Taunton line which is nice and straight and has few stops for the fast services but never rises about 110mph?

It's nice enough, but I don't think that straight is very appropriate word to describe much of the Berks and Hants line...

Ok I stand corrected although it isn't /that/ curvy.  I had assumed that it was the level crossings that kept the line speed down not the curves.

Gerry Fiennes once wrote that a driver said to him that he, the driver, thought that the builders of the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) were paid by the mile.

[ChrisB]

Owner of now-closed Brentnor station can't sell

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Old-train-station-market-way-alternative-rail/story-20620746-detail/story.html

[Lee]

At least it doesn't sound like a total disaster for him. He seems to be suggesting that he doesn't need to sell, he would just like to.

[alexross42]

Both the LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) had separate lines that ran through here, but one of them (the GWR I think), didn't actually run through the station - it was a few metres outside of the station boundary. (see pic: )

If the line was reinstated then it could follow this path rather than through the old platforms (can't see much justification for reinstating passenger services here). However, there would still of course be a considerable impact on the residence and it's potential for sale.