Dawlish Avoiding Line - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[woody]

XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) do have a cap and collar but typically they don't apply for the first couple of years, so theirs hasn't kicked in yet. The franchises that were stuffed when the recession hit were the most recent ones, as they were too new to benefit for C&C.

That would explain why X country are so desperate to save money now,thanks for the info.

[John R]

I believe the rationale of C&Cs is that aspiring TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) can have more certainty in planning the first couple of years of the franchise. In other words the DafT expects them to stand by their promises.  But it's more difficult to guess the state of the economy up to 7 years in advance, so the cap and collar gives some protection in the event of the economy not growing as much as predicted.

Though as we've seen, events have shown that the economy can deteriorate very rapidly, and to some extent Nat Ex EC and XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) were unlucky in being relatively new when the downturn happened. Though they had probably already shown their true colours in terms of cost management of the franchises before the downturn happened, so don't get any sympathy from me.   

[Henry]

 It would not suprise me if XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) late services only go as far as Plymouth.

 I can remember a conversation with a Train Manager who was telling me that when she got to Penzance, it was then a taxi back to plymouth.

 So I presume to start the service from Penzance, meant a very early taxi the next morning.

 

[eightf48544]

With train crew being allocated to TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) and not a depot, then it's taxis all the time sometimes over considerable distances when they can't return by train.

Heard from a reliable source that on one TOC Drivers and condutors travelled in separate taxis even if going back to same place. Same source quoted London Leicester as a regular run.

It's another one of the conundrums posed by the "Wolmar Question "What are TOCS for?"

[Super Guard]

Just seen on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) news, the Exeter-Plymouth railway link is being debated in the House of Commons today.  Newton Abbot MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) is arguing that the coastal route needs to be secured, while the Devon branch of the Campaign for the Protection of Rural England are saying alternatives need to be found.

[inspector_blakey]

All very well various posters above speculating about whether XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services in the west country will be cut back to Plymouth or Exeter or Taunton or Bristol or Birmingham etc etc but (subject to the caveat that I have no idea what is specified in the franchise agreement) assuming they are specified as part of the franchise then they'll still have to run. I don't see Arriva successfully renegotiating the franchise with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) so that they can remove services they signed up to which they've now decided are operationally inconvenient.

[grahame]

..... I don't see Arriva successfully renegotiating the franchise with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) so that they can remove services they signed up to which they've now decided are operationally inconvenient.

Don't see why not - others have renegotiated for their own operational convenience ...

[woody]

Moderator note:
For specific discussion on the merits or otherwise of reopening the former LSWR^▸ (London South Western Railway) route between Okehampton and Tavistock please comment in the following topic: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2338.0

Likewise, for the merits or otherwise of building a Dawlish Avoiding Line please keep those comments here.

The two subjects are related and I did consider merging them both into one super topic, but I think there's enough of a difference to keep them separate. If your comment encompasses both routes then you're free to choose where you wish to post.
bignosemac.


A railway tunnel should be built under a hill near Exeter to divert the main line away from a vulnerable coastline route, a Devon MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) has said.
Basically a rehash of the 1937 Great Western Dawlish avoiding line which would have been completed in 1941 but for the war stopping construction.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-17188408

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

I fail to see how this could be viable

[broadgage]

Agree, tunnels are hugely expensive.
If a surface avoiding line CAN be afforded, then why has it not been built ?
If a surface avoiding line can NOT be afforded, then I cant forsee money being found for a much more expensive tunnel.

[exeterkiwi]

Hi

I was wondering which villages the line would of passed, when the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) surveyed in spring 1939

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawlish_Avoiding_Line


Guy

[Electric train]

What a shame the "Great Western Railway (Additional Powers) Act 1936" only lapsed so recently

[ellendune]

Welcome exeterkiwi

Speaking personally, I am glad you started a new thread for this (mods may disagree). The one of the Okehampton reopening thread had strayed off topic.  Perhaps they could be moved here?

So the proposal could have an inland Dawlish Station, that would remove much of the local opposition.  

[Red Squirrel]

Look what I found: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10433.0

[Umberleigh]

I would like to know why Network Rail's knee-jerk reaction when faced the collapsed sea wall was to immediately dismiss an alternative route. The reasons were a) cost of ^700-800 million, and b) beset with problems.

I would like to ask Network Rail a) how much was Crossrail, and b) did tunnelling under London not come with so much as a single problem?

I'm guessing the board of Network Rail live in the South-East and drive to Cornwall for their holidays...