Dawlish Avoiding Line - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[Lee]

The Westcountry will not get a new climate change-proof intercity rail route for another 50 years (link below.)
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/homepagenews/50-year-delay-rail-route/article-200624-detail/article.html

Campaigners have for years been pushing for a route to replace part of the current main line between Penzance and London.

But it is understood Network Rail has ruled out any changes to the route for the next 30 years at least, and possibly up to 50.

Instead, its strategic plan for the route over the next three decades will focus on upgrading protection on the line through South Devon, where it is often affected by extreme coastal weather conditions that hold up services.

At a meeting held in Exeter, a Network Rail representative apparently told regional business figures it did not see any need for a new line.

However, a spokeswoman for Network Rail said there had been a "misunderstanding" at the meeting and that it was looking at all options for the Westcountry rail routes.

She said that a feasibility study due out in 2009 would address the best way to develop the service in the region.

Roger Creagh-Osborne, of Campaign for Better Transport in Plymouth and Cornwall & Saltash Rail Users Group, said the jury was still out on whether a new route or upgrading defences on the current line was the best option, but that Network Rail should at least be looking into the possibility.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Further coverage at http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=134822&command=displayContent&sourceNode=237837&home=yes&more_nodeId1=134831&contentPK=21014135

[eightf48544]

What gets me is that these things are seen as either or.

Either you shore up the sea wall or you have new railway.

Reinstatement of Okehampton Bere Alston serving Tavistock seems like a good idea in its own right, shoring up the sea wall also seems a good idea. Then building a new route around Dawlish could be 50 years off, but there would still be rail from London to Plymouth if the sea wall fails sooner.

So let's be adventurous and go for both. I am sure if we did do both schemes (and other reinstatement schemes capacity enhancements) we would feel happier as a country as we could boost we gave the railways to the world and now were making ours fit for the 21st century. What we neeed is a 21st C Brunel.

Of course Networkrail has got to get a lot smarter at doing schemes and keep the traffic moving not like the fiasco on the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line). Rebuilding Reading is going to be a good test of that skill. I've heard it's going to take 7 years! I can't see how they can have full blockades over that period of time.
 
But the great advantage of doing Okehampton - Bere Alston sooner rather than later is that it provides the alternative route ready for the sea wall work to commence. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly came under pressure yesterday to consider diverting a Westcountry mainline rail service away from the coast if it is upgraded to become a high-speed route. Campaigners demanded upgrades to the line between Dawlish and Teignmouth where bad weather can often hold up services.

Last month, the WMN^» (Warminster - next trains) revealed that Network Rail had ruled out any changes to the route for the next 30 years at least, and possibly up to 50. But the Penzance-Paddington mainline is also under consideration to become a 186mph ^super route^, slashing journey times to the capital.

See http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/RAIL-LINE-AWAY-SEA/article-220932-detail/article.html

[G.Uard]

 But, [according to the WMN^» (Warminster - next trains)], the Penzance-Paddington mainline is also under consideration to become a 186mph ^super route^, slashing journey times to the capital.

See http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/RAIL-LINE-AWAY-SEA/article-220932-detail/article.html

Outrageous optimism on the part of the local arm, (haystacks and hunting), of the Daily Mail...nuff said...scramble the ROFL copter...

[FlyingDutchman]

Just wonder what other route could be created to link Exeter to Plymouth

I just wanted to start a discussion


From western morning news
 
RAIL bosses are coming under increasing pressure to find an alternative route if rising sea levels make the Dawlish line impassable in the long term.

Council leaders, MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) and business organisations are concerned that, while coastal defences on the crucial route into the Westcountry are considered adequate for the next two decades, planning for beyond that seems to be limited.

A House of Commons inquiry into the South West's transport links was told sky-high costs could make diverting the railway unviable.

But Labour MP Alison Seabeck, chairman of the region's select committee, said the timescale for such a major project meant it was "wise" that planning should start now. This would ensure engineers have "something in the back pocket" should the line become unusable after 20 years.

Scenes of waves crashing across the line on the South Devon coast have become a familiar feature of the Westcountry railways.

Chris Aldridge, principal route planner at Network Rail Western, said: "Our civil engineers have reviewed it and have come to the conclusion that Dawlish sea protection is sustainable at least for 20 years and are reviewing that process for beyond that 20 years."

But asked if long-term planning was taking place to look at alternative routes, he told the committee: "It is 'how we would fund that route and what is the real demand for it?' "

Planning to look at costs was at "very, very early stages", he said.

The Commons South West select committee is carrying out an inquiry into transport in the region.

In evidence to the committee, a number of organisations have called for the Dawlish rail line to be addressed.

Plymouth City Council said the "infrastructure continually suffers at the hands of the elements and this route has been damaged a number of times such that the rail connection to Torbay, Plymouth and Cornwall has been severed".

As a result, the city and the wider region is not able "to achieve its full potential and does not allow business to capitalise on the excellent quality of life for its employees that can be offered by this area".

Devon and Cornwall Business Council warned the region was "already susceptible to being cut off as our main motorway and train links run through areas prone to flooding such as the Somerset Levels and Dawlish". Relatively brief interruptions to the normal flow of people and goods "carry a high associated cost in terms of lost time, business and delays to operating schedules", it said.

Cornwall Council said the difficulties faced by the far South West are compounded by "the reliance on a strategic transport network which is vulnerable to extreme weather events and rising sea levels".

The Federation of Small Business said the Dawlish route was "considered to have a limited life".

Appearing before the committee, Mike Gallop, Network Rail's route enhancement manager for the Western region, said the Dawlish line was "a very sensitive piece of political infrastructure and we will make sure we look after it". He added: "It's a sensitive piece of railway, we spend a fortune on it."

[Phil]

Just wonder what other route could be created to link Exeter to Plymouth

I have a sneaking, if rather cynical, suspicion that the answer may already exist: the Stagecoach X38 service

[Tim]

Not sure now politically acceptable it would be to cut cornwall off from therail network.

i suspect that in reality the Dawlish route will continue to be used for many years even when it starts being closd more frequntly for high water and/or subsequnt repairs.  We dn't do future planning very well in the country.

[FlyingDutchman]

I wonder if the answer may be different if Cornwall or Devon  had there own Government or had some MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) in the Cabinet.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

the trouble is any new route would cut somewhere off the network, a more inbound route to newton abbot would cut off dawlish teignmouth and starcross.... the okehampton route would cut out newton abbot and mean two reversals (esd and plym), the heathfield route would cut out the sea wall towns, which leaves two options... a new line getting as close to all the old stations as possible which could also be coupled with a future high speed line to cornwall, or do some drastic reinforcement works and sea defences on that route which would spoil the look of the area and probably cost just as much as the new route... theres alot to think about

[FlyingDutchman]

If we look at the inland route with a pop around 23,580, I don't think Newton Abbot will be left out

So I would guess the route would have to go next to Heathfield and then onto Haldon Hills via a tunnel to Exeter.


Branch Lines after the sea wall is breech
1) Dawlish Warren railway station Will be one Branch line to Exeter
2) Teignmouth to Newton Abbot

[Branch Line Connor]

If we look at the inland route with a pop around 23,580, I don't think Newton Abbot will be left out

So I would guess the route would have to go next to Heathfield and then onto Haldon Hills via a tunnel to Exeter.


Branch Lines after the sea wall is breech
1) Dawlish Warren railway station Will be one Branch line to Exeter
2) Teignmouth to Newton Abbot

You missed out Dawlish 

[eightf48544]

Won't Dawlish Warren be where the line is breached first?

Therefore, the branch will be Newton Abbot to  Dawlish and no branch South along the river from Exemouth.

If Bere Alston Tavistock is a goer then Okehampton Tavistock is the obvious first route to cope with the first problems of the seawall. Hopefully someone DaFT^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) Devon CC et al is safeguarding the route from development.

Has any of it been given to Sustrans because that could be a major problem with their instance of a cycle way by the railway?

Then the  inland route from Exeter to Newton Abbot.

[FlyingDutchman]

I have always though the part of the line they are worried about is the part between Teignmouth and Dawlish Warren.

Yes I have heard from friends that the Dawlish Warren is likely to breech. So in that instance the Line from Dawlish Warren to Starcross.

[devon_metro]

The continued erosion of the Dawlish Warren spit is one of the major concerns, as removal of this will expose lots of low lying land next to the River Exe, thus endangerng the line between Dawlish and Exeter.