Network Rail to consider Major New Rail Lines

[whole diary]

[John R]

The max speed of 91s in 2008 is 125mph. The 140mph trials stopped under BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))!

They were only to prove that the 91s and Mk 4s were fit for purpose, ie that they were able to do what the contract specification required them to do.

Re the comment re Corsham Station, 4 running lines and loops is fantasyland given there appears no money to do a "basic" job (and even basic jobs seem to cost millions these days). 

[eightf48544]

Re the comment re Corsham Station, 4 running lines and loops is fantasyland given there appears no money to do a "basic" job (and even basic jobs seem to cost millions these days). 

Roger Ford called it the  "boiling frog" syndrome. There is absolutely no reason why a 4 track station at Corsham could not be built. Just employ good civil, peranent way and signal engineers  plus a quantity surveyor to plan the work and good project manager to do the work. Sack all the "bean counters" who only add costs for  no improvement in the project.

[G.Uard]

Realistically, the relatively short distances involved would not make a good sense for a GW^▸ (Great Western) LGV^▸ (Large Goods Vehicle). There is also the old bugbear of electrification in the Severn Tunnel to consider, as any scheme would ultimately have to include wires to Cardiff, (at least), in the long term. Despite talk of dual powered traction, (engendered perhaps by rail planners' estimates for oil to cost $70 a barrel in 2010), I believe that current trends, will see an extension of current electrification schemes and a scrapping of large scale, hybrid motive power plans.

IMO^▸ (in my opinion) 140-155 mph is the maximum we can hope to see along the GW main line, but even that modest increase would require some civil engineering and the provision of cab signalling.

As far as the Berks and Hants and services SW of Bristol are concerned, 125 mph as far as Exeter would probably be the maximum.  Beyond there, given the difficult terrain, Plymouth and Cornwall, despite their attractiveness as destinations, just do not make sufficient economic case for speeds of over 100 mph

[Tinminer]

As far as the Berks and Hants and services SW of Bristol are concerned, 125 mph as far as Exeter would probably be the maximum.  Beyond there, given the difficult terrain, Plymouth and Cornwall, despite their attractiveness as destinations, just do not make sufficient economic case for speeds of over 100 mph

I'm afraid that is inverse argument, and short sighted thinking.

By improving transport connections/travel times from Plymouth/Cornwall to the centre of England & the Capital will improve the economies of those areas, thereby creating more transport demand, thereby improving the economy further, ad infinitum.

In addition, both the South Hams areas and Cornwall are seeing significant population increases c/w rest of UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

If we did not have transport visions and improvements, we'd still be using the canals, or turnpike roads!

[Tinminer]

IMO^▸ (in my opinion) 140-155 mph is the maximum we can hope to see along the GW^▸ (Great Western) main line, but even that modest increase would require some civil engineering and the provision of cab signalling.

Why? In the long term, we could see a HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) 3 or 4 route in the GW area. We need the vision and the will, not the negativity about why things can't happen because of reasons x, y & z.

[G.Uard]

In my post above, I tried to separate fantasy from reality.  The major commercial centres on the GW^▸ (Great Western) main line are far too close together to allow much above 155 mph running.  OK, a new LGV^▸ (Large Goods Vehicle) line with it's first stop at Bristol may just sneak into consideration, but would operators really forego the revenue on offer at Reading and Swindon and would such a line be cost effective?  I would say doubtful, but would be interested to see a cogent financial argument.  The original railway builders were visionaries, but also speculators and although some of their routes are still carrying traffic today, many more bit the dust well before Queen Victoria.  Even in the 'Golden Age', financial considerations were to the fore.

With regard to services west of Exeter, heart would say wires to Plymouth and 125 mph running into Penzance. Head says 100-110 mph to Plymouth and doubling/resignalling to give a more robust and effective 90-100mph service in Cornwall.

I am aware of developments in the South West and of the economic woes in some areas of Cornwall, (which have far more complex root causes than just journey times to London/Bristol BTW^▸ (by the way)). As the son of a Cornishman and graduate of the UoP, my heart lies very much in that area.  Although I would love to see an LGV running to Plymouth and even beyond, I just don't think it is economically feasible.  Plymouth cannot be counted as anywhere near one of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s most prosperous cities; as a look at the databases available at http://www.socd.communities.gov.uk/socd/Welcome.aspx  will show.  It could be argued that improved communications could improve Plymouth's potential for growth, but not nearly enough to justify the gargantuan investment required to improve significantly, (i.e. more than a cut of 30 minutes to London), on current journey times west of Exeter.

[woody]

One thing is for certain line speeds of 55/65mph on the so called main line west of Newton Abbot are just not good enough anymore let alone as the 21st century unwinds.With yet another major road scheme in Cornwall(the Dobwalls bypass on the A38 between Plymouth and Bodmin) due to open in the autumn the last thing the railway infrastructure needs in these parts is stagnation.Ultimately that is a recipe for decline for the railway.It is sad reflection that since the 1930s abortive attempts by the then Great western to improve the rail infrastructure west of Exeter so little has happened.

[IndustryInsider]

In my post above, I tried to separate fantasy from reality. 

I have to say that I agree pretty much totally with G.Uard's comments on this subject.

[John R]

Agree with both G.Uard and Industry Insider. Some of the ideas suggested on this Forum do move away from a considered view of what is possible to cloud-cuckoo land.  G.Uard brings a dose of reality to what could be possible in a more enlightened environment.   

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

im sorry but i stand by what i said and want to add the following the via yeovil route for high speed would be faster i dont even mean stop at yeovil lets be fair no need!! but if it was doubled up the line is fast as it is its also very straight the only major problem i can see is between exeter and plymouth ... billions to fix the sea wall so that it will never sercome to the sea.... a new line further inland via newton abbot or rebuild the line between meldon quarry and beare alston ( something i belive would be a benifit eather way... always good to have a backup... cheapest option) im sorry for yet again posting drunk i know im an idiot but my hope is that every one can bring order to chaos and use my enthuiasm because the south western network is a goldmine

[Lee]

Friends of the Earth has said the government should invest in high-speed rail as an alternative to air travel (link below.)
http://www.englandsnorthwest.com/invest/news/archive/6626-government-should-invest-in-affordable-high-speed-rail.html

The Airport Operators Association recently reported that consumers have become less willing to pay for eco-friendly alternatives to flying as the economy tightens.

However, the three largest airports in Scotland reported decreased passenger numbers for July, which their owner described as another result of the high price of fuel and the credit crunch (link below.)
http://www.asap.co.uk/news/airports-see-domestic-passengers-shift-to-rail-5633452.html

Experts say that the results suggest that BAA and the airlines operating from the three airports are facing real competition from rail services for passengers traveling to points within Britain.

The downturn in domestic passenger numbers is expected to continue through the coming winter. BA^» (British Airways - about) has already cut one of its Glasgow to Heathrow flights, and the rail service from Scotland to England is expected to be faster by early 2009.