Network Rail to consider Major New Rail Lines

[whole diary]

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

ok drinks got the better of me,let me clarify.... st davids to castlecary via yeovil town and yeovil junction, high speed,(maybee cardiff) bristol-castle cary h/s... both meeting at cc and continuing to paddington

from paddington a train every 30 mins at peak one bristol-cardiff and one st davids and plymouth

[12hoursunday]

Pardon       

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

was i really that drunk last night? im scared javascript:void(0);

[swlines]

How on earth did you manage to get some random javascript tosh into your message? o_O

[Btline]

To be honest a high speed line is not worth it on the London to South West route.

Brunel's lines surely be upgraded to 155 mph, 140 mph and 125 mph in most parts.

The cities are so close together, there is not point in 200 mph running.

Obviously, a fifth track from Paddington to Reading, and more capacity in the Reading area would be required, but apart from that, just electrify and introduce new tilting trains. I spur from Heathrow to the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) facing West would also be useful, and get coaches off the M4.

Besides if you built a new line London to Bristol, I doubt there would be enough local traffic to justify the existing GWML, when you assume most of the cities would be served by the new line. Yes, new stations, new Oxford to Bristol service, but no more Swindon or Didcot passengers!

--------

No, unless you use the old Waterloo Eurostar platforms in some way, running a high speed link into Waterloo would be a nightmare for the busiest commuter lines! Also, where are the cities?

I think Brunel's line is the best designed line into central London - it should be exploited fully before any new lines bring hell to West Londoners.

[devon_metro]

To be honest a high speed line is not worth it on the London to South West route.

Brunel's lines surely be upgraded to 155 mph, 140 mph and 125 mph in most parts.

The cities are so close together, there is not point in 200 mph running.

Obviously, a fifth track from Paddington to Reading, and more capacity in the Reading area would be required, but apart from that, just electrify and introduce new tilting trains. I spur from Heathrow to the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) facing West would also be useful, and get coaches off the M4.

Besides if you built a new line London to Bristol, I doubt there would be enough local traffic to justify the existing GWML, when you assume most of the cities would be served by the new line. Yes, new stations, new Oxford to Bristol service, but no more Swindon or Didcot passengers!

--------

No, unless you use the old Waterloo Eurostar platforms in some way, running a high speed link into Waterloo would be a nightmare for the busiest commuter lines! Also, where are the cities?

I think Brunel's line is the best designed line into central London - it should be exploited fully before any new lines bring hell to West Londoners.

You seem obsessed with tilting stock, but last time I checked, its fairly flat/straight from Bristol - London, hence the high speeds 

Tilt hinders train design and internal comfort.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

i clicked the smily and nothing happened to i tried copying and pasting and java came up

[swlines]

To be honest a high speed line is not worth it on the London to South West route.

Brunel's lines surely be upgraded to 155 mph, 140 mph and 125 mph in most parts.

The cities are so close together, there is not point in 200 mph running.

Obviously, a fifth track from Paddington to Reading, and more capacity in the Reading area would be required, but apart from that, just electrify and introduce new tilting trains. I spur from Heathrow to the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) facing West would also be useful, and get coaches off the M4.

Besides if you built a new line London to Bristol, I doubt there would be enough local traffic to justify the existing GWML, when you assume most of the cities would be served by the new line. Yes, new stations, new Oxford to Bristol service, but no more Swindon or Didcot passengers!

--------

No, unless you use the old Waterloo Eurostar platforms in some way, running a high speed link into Waterloo would be a nightmare for the busiest commuter lines! Also, where are the cities?

I think Brunel's line is the best designed line into central London - it should be exploited fully before any new lines bring hell to West Londoners.

You seem obsessed with tilting stock, but last time I checked, its fairly flat/straight from Bristol - London, hence the high speeds 

Tilt hinders train design and internal comfort.

Tilt can be used to increase speeds on already existing lines within the existing loading gauge - see WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line)....

[Btline]

Tilting is not required on the near London stretches, but in Devon and Cornwall, not to mention many other stretches, tilting would raise speeds. It is the same with the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line), tilting is not needed on the southern stretches, but further north it could slash journey times.

If XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) got new tilting stock, they would benefit as well.

All new stock has to be "tilting compatible" ever since the IC225. Look at the 158s, 168s, 17Xs etc, so confort would be similar to any new build.

[swlines]

Tilting is not required on the near London stretches, but in Devon and Cornwall, not to mention many other stretches, tilting would raise speeds. It is the same with the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line), tilting is not needed on the southern stretches, but further north it could slash journey times.

If XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) got new tilting stock, they would benefit as well.

Tilting on the ECML would lower journey times by about 4 minutes at maximum, lol. Speeds are already over 100mph pretty much all the way and 91s are very powerful - so... negligible. GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) around Totnes wouldn't be able to take advantage of tilt, the curve radii are too short, same with further down the route.

All new stock has to be "tilting compatible" ever since the IC225. Look at the 158s, 168s, 17Xs etc, so confort would be similar to any new build.

Bull****. Look at 444s, 450s, 377s, 185s. 158s do not have a tilt profile (although it may look it). 170s do not have a tilt profile at all.

[Btline]

I would hasten to disagree. Have a look at the trains I mention! Have a look at the mark 4s. They all have sides that lean in.

The lines in Devon and Cornwall and Scotland are quite windy - solved by tilting

and hilly - solved by electrification.

[swlines]

Wow... sides that slope in. That really won't do anything to make them tilt enabled.

They require tilt equipment installing and there is no space on any of the stocks you listed. They tilt by about 3^ due to a purely aesthetic choice. 158s also are loosely based on Mk4s hence why they slope - no other reason though, no need to install tilt on 90mph stock is there? Likewise, Desiros are all rectangle and don't angle at all.

[eightf48544]

Getting awy from tilt and back to new high speed lines BTline is right it was Brunel that built the first high speed line as an Intercity Route from London to Bristol. Also he didn't follow the old  Bath Raod (A4) West of Reading leaving Newbury, Hungerford and Marlborough Devises off the through route. In the Thames Valley he missed Wallingford, Abingdon, Oxford, Wantage and Uffington. Swindon and Didcot are both creations of the railway.

It would easily be possible to reach Bristol in a little over the hour if it weren't for all the intermediate stops. What were the first HSTS in the 70s about 75 minutes or so with stops at Reading and Bath?

So how do you get high speed to the West. Increase capacity on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) East of Swindon 4 tracks to Didcot. Bring back 3rd platform at Chippenham and realing to allow fasts to overtake stoppers. Rebuild Reading with flyovers. Extra 5 trck East of Reading in parts.

Once West of Exeter geography is against you making a high speeed line expensive and probably not justified. So a possible solution is to do some realingment to increase overall line sped and probably the provision of passing places to allow more limited stop services to overtake stoppers. BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) did quite a lot of realtively minor work to increase the overall line speed on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) most noticebly at Offord by the Great Ouse and Peterborough where the 20 mph restriction through the station was lifted. When I say minor I mean with modern civil engineering equipment the work was realtively small, considering the original railway was dug by hand.

The differences they made were tremendous especially the Peterborough one.

A thought for the new Corsham station advocates. Make it a loop staion with 4 running lines platforms on loops and fasts through the middle. That way it doesn't become a bottle neck. It might be more expensve to start but that's how the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) built it's new lines like the Badminton route and the new Birmingham line from Old Oak to Banbury where there were 11 passing between Old Oak and Banbury.

It was even done on the Barry railway and the Vale of Glamorgan line admittedly to give the coal trains a run rather than expresses. 

Apparently this how the Japanese organise the Bullet trains. Intermediate stations are equipped for passing. I've heard someone tell that you glide to halt at the platform and 2 minutes later a fast comes by at full line speed your train then follows.

Why are we so scared of running railways fast with tight headways?

[Electric train]

There is one big limitation to running at higher speeds the amount of energy to get from 100 mph to 150 mph and then maintain that speed is almost the same as getting from 0 to 100 mph therefore high speed is only of benefit on long runs.  The GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) to Bristol and even to Cardiff was well designed and is capable of certainly 140 to 150 MPH in most places between Reading and Chippenham there would need to be some civil work to ensure cuttings and embankments are stable and some track geometry changes but most of this was done in the early 70's in preparation for the HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s.

Just touching on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) the class 91 do run in excess of 125 MPH in a number of places Stoke Bank / Little Bytham one of them that is why there are flashing green aspects on the signals, most of the ECML suffers form power supply problems Cores Mill Feeder was installed about 2001 to bolster the supply in the Hitchin and Stevenage area but even on the newer stretches Grantham, Newark, Doncaster etc suffer especially if one of the grid supplies is out.  When the Eurostars ran on the ECML they were power limited to that of the 91.

[devon_metro]

The max speed of 91s in 2008 is 125mph. The 140mph trials stopped under BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))!