Pacer trains

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

Surely though losing all of those 142s at the end of the year once the refurb is complete will be a disaster!  There arent that many units currently being refurbished! 

There's an unverified rumour going around that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will keep 7 142s even after they get the 150s from London Overground and London Midland, hence why FGW are refurbishing them.

[eightf48544]

What this post shows is how short FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is of suitable stock to run its current timetable let alone more or longer trains.

Perhaps the forum should take all these complaints about particualr uniti and the way they are shuffled around robbing Peter to pay Paul and say.

"We want more units there aren't enough in the country so we must have new builds and lots of them and sooner than the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) says." Whilst beating Lord Harrris over the head with the order form.

The trouble is that having closed most of the carriage works in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and the continental ones working flat out to meet their own needs it would probably be 2 years before we saw anything new.

So meanwhile FGW passengers crowd into unsuitble short trains.

[northwesterntrains]

What this post shows is how short FGW^▸ (First Great Western) is of suitable stock to run its current timetable let alone more or longer trains.

Perhaps the forum should take all these complaints about particualr uniti and the way they are shuffled around robbing Peter to pay Paul and say.

"We want more units there aren't enough in the country so we must have new builds and lots of them and sooner than the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) says." Whilst beating Lord Harrris over the head with the order form.

The trouble is that having closed most of the carriage works in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and the continental ones working flat out to meet their own needs it would probably be 2 years before we saw anything new.

So meanwhile FGW passengers crowd into unsuitble short trains.

DfT concentrate too much on commuter routes in London and long distance London services. 

From December Virgin will run 30-33 carriages per hour in the off-peak periods between Manchester and London when the current 20 carriages per hour aren't full to maximum capacity.  Yet Dft won't let First TransPennine Express have extra carriages for 185s, which they desperatly need.

[northwesterntrains]

Perhaps the forum should take all these complaints about particualr uniti and the way they are shuffled around robbing Peter to pay Paul and say.

"We want more units there aren't enough in the country so we must have new builds and lots of them and sooner than the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) says." Whilst beating Lord Harrris over the head with the order form.

You should also point out that it's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul ^1 for each hour of his work.

[qwerty]

Personally, I think a deal will be struck to keep the 142s, think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have refurb'd them anyway and the capacity is NEEDED down here. We've already had out decent stock sent to Northern so why should the NEEDED stock go back up there?

How many of the Class 142 units currently in FGW's possession have been refurbished by them?

7 refurbished units, the other five have not been touched as they are the ones going back in December. Indeed the other day Northern Rail had to give approval to fit a new cab fan in one of them.

Last winter FGW had 7 142 diagrams from 12 units, over the summer it has risen to 8 from the same 12 (although 142 001 is now servicable).
I heard a whisper that from december it will be 5 142 diagrams from 7 units. The other 2  diagrams will be covered by 150's  (hooray) These 150's will be available because the refurb process will be over by then.

[devon_metro]

Much fewer 4 car units then 

[swlines]

Probably unrelated to this thread but just going to throw it in here for the sake of it - class 143s will be refurbished at St Blazey.

[TerminalJunkie]

Much fewer

It's either 'many fewer' or 'much less'.
At least you were right to use 'fewer', so I'll only deduct five marks

[Karl]

Morning

Doubtful, St. Blazey is a "EWS^▸ (English Welsh & Scottish Railway Ltd, now known as DB Schenker Rail (UK^▸ (United Kingdom))) DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) Shenker" freight
depot so I wouldn't of thought so, plus there was a
bust up between them and "Wessex" a while back which
I would of thought wouldn't help matters.

Karl.

Probably unrelated to this thread but just going
to throw it in here for the sake of it - class 143s
will be refurbished at St Blazey.

[devon_metro]

Much fewer

It's either 'many fewer' or 'much less'.
At least you were right to use 'fewer', so I'll only deduct five marks

Does it look like I care?

[northwesterntrains]

Not wishing to doubt you, but did they really place an order?

 I seem to remeber them (Northern) flying a kite about what might be available from China, but actually placing an order is a lengthy process that would have taken months.
I dare say parties of Chinese engineers would have been visible at Newton Heath running rulers over the existing rolling stock.

It is interesting to note by way of contrast that Hitachi were seen around the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) railway for a couple of years before an order was announced.

Northern Rail decided on the length of the carriages (longer than 142s or 150s), that they would have 2+2 seating and that there would be a mixture of 2 and 3 car units built.  The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) made it clear that trains for use in Britain can not be built outside the EU^» (European Union - about), so blocked the proposals.  I don't know exactly what stage the order was at when DfT blocked the proposals. 

It was assumed at this stage that Northern Rail could get the majority of the 158s released from TP Express (when the 185s were released) and some from Central Trains (when the 350s were put on the Liverpool to Birmingham route, displacing some 170s, which in turn would have released 158s) meaning that most 142s would have been out of use by 2006, which obviously didn't happen.  Part of the problem was the order of 185s being reduced meaning a number of 158s had to go to South West Trains in exchange for 170s.  (170s were deemed better for the Manchester to Hull route than 158s or 185s due to weight problems on the line.)

So in 2004 the order being cut didn't seem too significant as it was assumed that around 50 142s would be removed from service by 2007, not 12 which would later be put back in to service with First Great Western.

[TerminalJunkie]

Does it look like I care?

I don't really care whether or not you care. The point is that I care.

[swlines]

Part of the problem was the order of 185s being reduced meaning a number of 158s had to go to South West Trains in exchange for 170s.  (170s were deemed better for the Manchester to Hull route than 158s or 185s due to weight problems on the line.)

You forget that SWT^▸ (South West Trains) think 170s are sh*te... which is why we so happily got rid of them for some 158s!

[qwerty]

Much fewer 4 car units then 

  Er.. No. 4 car formations are not thrown out randomly on the basis of spare units kicking around at Exeter. They each have a unit diagram.

There were 7 142 unit diagrams last winter and there will be 5 this winter, plus 2 additional diagrams from other sprinter types. So exactly the same amount of booked pared units.
What you may notice is the 142 + 153 combination being common on peak trains.

[tarkaline]

 I think The pacer trains are ok. I just think they should refurbish them with inter-city type seats like on the Welsh Valley class 142s and the bristol based Class 143s. They should of done that before they entered
Service down hear they would of had less complaints then. However been from Lapford up to Barnstaple  today Sunday 13th July 2008  on A Train which was a refurbished Class 153 sprinter coupled with a Class 142 pacer. That was the 14:30 from Lapford not sure what time it left Exeter but got to Barny at 15:11 and the same formation coming back the same day at 19:15 from Barny. It was brilliant at least making train travel interesting if nothing else. Didn't catch from train numbers but I think the class 142 was 142070