Pacer trains

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

I'm curious as to where FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are finding 2/3 units in order to have an hourly service to BNP^▸ (Barnstaple). Hopefully they aren't stripping capacity from Paignton. Next step - half hourly Exeter - Paignton 

First Great Western are sending 5 142s back to Northern Rail by the December timetable change.  However, they are expected to keep the rest as well as obtaining 6 150s from London Overground and 10+ from London Midland when new 172s are delievered to those franchise operators.

[swlines]

Ah yes, 5 142s which I suspect Northern Rail won't have any use for ...

It's expected that London Overground will want the 2 150/1s back at some point to enhance the GOBLIN service - and then will hand them all over at the time of delivery of 172s.

[devon_metro]

Personally, I think a deal will be struck to keep the 142s, think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have refurb'd them anyway and the capacity is NEEDED down here. We've already had out decent stock sent to Northern so why should the NEEDED stock go back up there?

[northwesterntrains]

Personally, I think a deal will be struck to keep the 142s, think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have refurb'd them anyway and the capacity is NEEDED down here. We've already had out decent stock sent to Northern so why should the NEEDED stock go back up there?

Your 158s went to First Scotrail and East Midlands Trains not to Northern.  Northerns 158s are all former TP Express, Central Trains, First North Western and Arriva Trains Northern units. (No fomer Wessex Trains units) Although a couple of 158s that FGW borrowed off Northern Rail (in Central Trains livery) were returned.

Northern Rail still have 68 142s that mostly run in single combination and are too small for almost every service they run. (even a large number of off-peak trains.)

[swlines]

Personally, I think a deal will be struck to keep the 142s, think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have refurb'd them anyway and the capacity is NEEDED down here. We've already had out decent stock sent to Northern so why should the NEEDED stock go back up there?

Your 158s went to First Scotrail and East Midlands Trains not to Northern.  Northerns 158s are all former TP Express, Central Trains, First North Western and Arriva Trains Northern units. (No fomer Wessex Trains units) Although a couple of 158s that FGW borrowed off Northern Rail (in Central Trains livery) were returned.

Northern Rail still have 68 142s that mostly run in single combination and are too small for almost every service they run. (even a large number of off-peak trains.)

One point - you say they are too short for single combination runs on a majority of services.

Second point - I think it's highly likely when the 142s return up north we'll see a high number of cancellations of our services. Now, would you rather have the 142s back and be blamed for a large number of cancellations in the south west, or just put up with the low capacity on a lot of trains until FGW are ready to hand them back?

[Lee]

Personally, I think a deal will be struck to keep the 142s, think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have refurb'd them anyway and the capacity is NEEDED down here. We've already had out decent stock sent to Northern so why should the NEEDED stock go back up there?

How many of the Class 142 units currently in FGW's possession have been refurbished by them?

[devon_metro]

I'd say about 9/10

[northwesterntrains]

One point - you say they are too short for single combination runs on a majority of services.

Second point - I think it's highly likely when the 142s return up north we'll see a high number of cancellations of our services. Now, would you rather have the 142s back and be blamed for a large number of cancellations in the south west, or just put up with the low capacity on a lot of trains until FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are ready to hand them back?

First point.  See page the bottom of page 4 of http://www.mcrua.org.uk/draft_rus_response.pdf for passenger numbers of what's described as one of the least crowded routes in the North West area, where the majority of services are 2 car 142s.

Second point.  I was trying to illustate that you would get more trains as you would lose 5 142s but get a lot more than 5 150s to replace them.  It's likely the 150s you'll get will have 3+2 seating, rather than the 2+2 that Wessex Trains used.

[northwesterntrains]

I'd say about 9/10

I thought FGW^▸ (First Great Western) had 12.

[swlines]

One point - you say they are too short for single combination runs on a majority of services.

Second point - I think it's highly likely when the 142s return up north we'll see a high number of cancellations of our services. Now, would you rather have the 142s back and be blamed for a large number of cancellations in the south west, or just put up with the low capacity on a lot of trains until FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are ready to hand them back?

First point.  See page the bottom of page 4 of http://www.mcrua.org.uk/draft_rus_response.pdf for passenger numbers of what's described as one of the least crowded routes in the North West area, where the majority of services are 2 car 142s.

Second point.  I was trying to illustate that you would get more trains as you would lose 5 142s but get a lot more than 5 150s to replace them.  It's likely the 150s you'll get will have 3+2 seating, rather than the 2+2 that Wessex Trains used.

Apart from the fact that the deficit of units while we await for the 150s to arrive - which won't happen in December... maybe another 2 years? So what should be done in the mean time? Transport people on magical carpets?

[northwesterntrains]

Apart from the fact that the deficit of units while we await for the 150s to arrive - which won't happen in December... maybe another 2 years? So what should be done in the mean time? Transport people on magical carpets?

I don't have any evidence that Northern will get the 5 142s in December.  I just thought that it would be before the December 2008 timetable change as Northern Rail are expected to run extra trains on a few lines from December, but are only allowed to cut the service on one short line.  It may be that Northern won't get extra trains in time and will have to have all their trains in service and turn trains around in under 5 minutes, as First North Western were required to do a few years ago.

[swlines]

It's fairly well known that the 142s will return to Northern when the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) refurb programme is complete.

[r james]

Surely though losing all of those 142s at the end of the year once the refurb is complete will be a disaster!  There arent that many units currently being refurbished! 

[Lee]

I just thought that it would be before the December 2008 timetable change as Northern Rail are expected to run extra trains on a few lines from December, but are only allowed to cut the service on one short line.

Which "short line" are you reffering to?

[northwesterntrains]

I just thought that it would be before the December 2008 timetable change as Northern Rail are expected to run extra trains on a few lines from December, but are only allowed to cut the service on one short line.

Which "short line" are you reffering to?

Manchester Victoria to Oldham, which will get a reduced service as work commences to convert it to light rail.