Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
No recent travel & transport from BBC stories as at 18:15 26 Apr 2025
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 10/05/25 - BRTA Westbury
10/05/25 - Model Railway Show, Calne
13/05/25 - Melksham TUG / AGM
14/05/25 - West Wiltshire RUG

On this day
26th Apr (2016)
DOO strikes start on Southern (link)

Train RunningCancelled
18:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood
18:25 Oxford to Banbury
18:51 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
19:00 Banbury to Oxford
Short Run
15:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
16:02 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
17:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
17:06 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
18:02 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
18:12 Salisbury to Cheltenham Spa
18:45 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
19:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
Delayed
13:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central
15:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
15:30 Weymouth to Gloucester
16:08 Gloucester to Weymouth
16:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
16:30 London Paddington to Taunton
17:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton
17:02 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
17:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
17:35 Swindon to Westbury
17:44 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
17:52 Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads
18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
18:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Great Malvern
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 26, 2025, 18:27:47 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[139] Standardisation of Time and the Railway Clearing House
[82] Penryn to Melksham - summary and some pictures from 25.4.2025
[77] Intoxicated person plan needed on Tube - coroner, April 2025
[56] Gloucester station needs an east-facing bay platform
[53] BBC TV Licensing - ongoing discussion
[49] HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general dis...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Routing / Any Permitted / Easements  (Read 178 times)
Mark A
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1983


View Profile
« on: Yesterday at 10:20:18 »

Does anyone know of a source for how routing has evolved over the last... well, I'm not sure. Perhaps since the railway moved from a pattern of infrequent services over a rather more extensive infrastructure and started to aspire to, say, hourly clockface patterns of services on the network we use today.

Is guidance for passengers to the effect: 'If the National Rail site won't sell a ticket for it, then it's not a permitted route'?

An issue is that the National Rail site can give the impression that for some journeys that had an alternative that was rather longer than the arbitrary 'Up to 3 miles longer is a permitted route and anything else needs an explicit easement' rule, routing easements have somewhat contracted, which is not to the benefit of the intending traveller.

Mark
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13339


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 10:34:09 »

KI'm not sure routing easements are removed are they? Do we have any examples?
Logged
Trowres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 824


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 23:36:10 »

Well, services were improving to hourly or better and clockface in BR (British Rail(ways)) days, long before "any reasonable route" became "any permitted route" and the Routeing Guide came into existence.

The thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-routeing-guide-update.99396/ starts in 2014, and the oldest I can find on the forum is from 2007: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/routeing-guide-easements.14305/

While these cover at-the-time changes, I don't know of any record of the cumulative effect of all the changes. I suspect that it would be difficult to research, especially as there are non-Guide changes that affect the choice of permitted routes. For example:
  • Timetable changes that add or remove through services
  • Some journeys not having an "any permitted" route option (only fares for specified routes)

Logged
Ralph Ayres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 420


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 23:47:29 »

I don't think there has been a widespread change since the concept of permitted routes was brought in as part of rail privatisation, though there has been some tightening up such as various journeys now being only "VIA YORK" as part of the LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) single tickets-only change which previously had much greater flexibility.  Easements do change, but generally on a temporary basis to take account of engineering work. 
It is I would say increasingly hard to spot useful alternatives to the obvious route, thanks to the National Rail Journey Planner being dumbed down to look pretty on a phone.  Even if you know an alternative route exists, it can be quite a battle to fool the algorithms to show the journey by using via points as just a few minutes extra on the journey time can render alternatives invisible.  In fairness most people would just be confused or irritated by being shown times they don't need, but perhaps a "show me everything however ludicrous" option should be offered.  Otherwise it can be a case of wading through the whole Routing Guide documentation, now held at https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/routeing-guide/.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 43910



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: Today at 07:10:12 »

Personal views ...

Many easements that I'm aware of have come into use because of a horrid infrequency of direct trains - journeys like from Cheltenham Spa and south thereof to Bromsgrove allowing double-backs, and journeys to and from Dilton Marsh doubling back st Westbury or Warminster.  Once direct hourly or better direct services are offered, the easement becomes developed out of making sense.   Open another platform at Pilning and the easement to double back to get there if arriving from / through Patchway (or noting the lines are bi-directional, run some services "wrong line") and you can clear away another easement.

"Any permitted" is a joke of a use of the English language.   It's a tautology and every ticket is permitted to be used on any route on which it is permitted - duh! ... Agreed that the permission may be "via Bath Spa" on a particular ticket but even when that's added to the ticket, it is still permitted to be used by any route on which it is permitted to be used!

I would favour a return of the term "any reasonable route" and to define that carefully to reduce any confusion. To be clear, "any reasonable route" would start with any train scheduled to get you to your destination, with intermediate changes if need be, ahead of any other route.   And an "any reasonable route" ticket should be always available.

That "any reasonable route" would overcome - for example - those very silly suggestions from booking engines (clue - it's called a booking engine because people want to book tickets) that tell you of a travel opportunity but then tell you "no tickets available".  Try Melksham to Chepstow.    Or try (but the booking engine does not offer it) Melksham to Bristol Parkway where much the fastest is a usually a single change at Swindon.

A slower route with fewer (or no) changes should be allowed to, and a slower route which moves the interchange station (s) between services that are fit for the less able - that includes disabled, but also those with heavy luggage, babes in prams, arms or tummies who are less able but not classified as disabled - and indeed allow anyone to make those extended changes.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
Mark A
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1983


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:39:05 »

**snip**
I would favour a return of the term "any reasonable route" and to define that carefully to reduce any confusion. To be clear, "any reasonable route" would start with any train scheduled to get you to your destination, with intermediate changes if need be, ahead of any other route.   And an "any reasonable route" ticket should be always available.
**snip**

That would be a big step forward, I'm thinking of one particular route that apparently isn't mapped as permitted but that for certain services offers the fastest journey between the end points. *Waves at Gloucester-and-points-north to Bath Spa via Swindon*

Mark
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules via admin@railcustomer.info. Full legal statement (here).

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page