Fortuitous connections ... and an App which fails to offer the best journey

[whole diary]

[grahame]

A day of fortuitous connections ...

From home on the 08:02, target destination Chepstow, change at Swindon and Newport and arrive there according to the planner at 10:15 but actual arrival 09:44 due to a quick switch between trains at Newport.

Home from Cardiff Central, where I arrived at about 13:45 to find ... recommended trains at 14:30 (Melksham 16:38) showing as cancelled on the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) timetable and ticket App, with next service not until 16:23 with a Melksham arrival of 18:00.  Blow that for a lark ... I caught the 14:00 Penzance train, changed (9 minutes) at Bristol Temple Meads, changed Chippenham (5 minute) and arrived Melksham 15:39

The homeward offering from the App was especially disappointing.  It was the 14:30 from Cardiff that was cancelled as far as Bristol and I should have been offered the 14:00 Penzance train in its place, change at Bristol and Trowbridge and arrive Melksham 16:38. 

My outward gain of 30 minutes was pure luck - no reasonable way that the app should or could have offered it. The return offering was an abject failure.



* There is no point in cluttering the default screen with services that have already departed

* When a train is cancelled, the App should offer alternative which are still running and fits within the normal interchange criteria

* My 9 minutes from Platform 4 to Platform 13 at Bristol Temple Meads was a change from one extreme of the station to the other, but was still achieved with around 4 or 5 minutes to spare - I joined quite a flow of people headed out to the far side through the subway and it was far from a rush.  My incoming train WAS on time - indeed it has sat waiting time at Filton Abbey Wood - sufficient of a station dwell for the train manager to explain it in an announcement. I appreciate that this 9 minute connection would have been tight had I been reliant on passenger assistance, but that's the thorny question as to whether the app should only offer options that will work if that's needed.    I like the Interrail App here - which does give you "short transfer"s and suggests that you only use those options if you are sure of yourself.

[LiskeardRich]

Bristol temple meads has a minimum connection time of 10 mins according to national rail website.
Booking systems can not sell an itinerary less than this.

[grahame]

Bristol temple meads has a minimum connection time of 10 mins according to national rail website.
Booking systems can not sell an itinerary less than this.

Yes, understood.  Why I raise this ...

a) The 14:00 Cardiff - Penzance, change into the Portsmouth train at Temple Meads, change into the Swindon train at Trowbridge WERE all running.  And with in excess of the minimum connection time. Why did the App not offer this?

b) The Interrail itinerary system does offer short transfers with a warning of short transfers - I have just pulled up an example of 8 minutes in Hamburg Hbf - with an easy way to avoid such changes and/or to replan along the way.  I am suggesting that this is a good example with the National Rail system could learn from.

[ChrisB]

* My 9 minutes from Platform 4 to Platform 13 at Bristol Temple Meads

There's your answer right there.....

Bristol temple meads has a minimum connection time of 10 mins according to national rail website.
Booking systems can not sell an itinerary less than this.

Yes, understood.

[Mark A]

* My 9 minutes from Platform 4 to Platform 13 at Bristol Temple Meads

There's your answer right there.....

An issue with Bristol Temple Meads is the often thin service combined with the station being worked in a way that often makes no attempt to minimise the distances that people have to walk to make connections.

Walking's good but not when it's designed-in as an additional feature of a transport system. At that point it becomes an accessibility issue.

Mark

[grahame]

Yes, understood.  Why I raise this ...

a) The 14:00 Cardiff - Penzance, change into the Portsmouth train at Temple Meads, change into the Swindon train at Trowbridge WERE all running.  And with in excess of the minimum connection time. Why did the App not offer this?

14:00 from Cardiff, 14:51 into Temple Meads

choice of
15:03 train towards Frome, 15:40 at Trowbridge or
15:23 train towards Portsmouth Harbour, 15:54 at Trowbridge

16:29 from Trowbridge to Melksham, arrives 16:38

Bristol temple meads has a minimum connection time of 10 mins according to national rail website.
Booking systems can not sell an itinerary less than this.

Yes - but there was either 12 or 32 minutes available at Bristol Temple Meads, and the 49 or 35 minutes available at Trowbridge, so ...

There's your answer right there.....

No Chris, that is not my answer as to why there was nothing offered from Cardiff between 13:30 and 16:23. All four trains listed above are in the timetable, all four ran at least the part of the route I needed, and the connections offered were way in excess of minimum time. 

[ChrisB]

... I caught the 14:00 Penzance train, changed (9 minutes) at Bristol Temple Meads, changed Chippenham (5 minute) and arrived Melksham 15:39

I thought you were asking why *this* connection wasn't offered. It's that 9 minute connection you acknowledged

[Red Squirrel]

It's that 9 minute connection you ackonwledged

Phew. For a moment I thought you were accusing our esteemed colleague of ackonWEGGLING, in which case I would have had to arrange for my seconds to call on you…

[ChrisB]

That was bad enough that it needed editing - thank you!

[Surrey 455]

* When a train is cancelled, the App should offer alternative which are still running and fits within the normal interchange criteria

Have you tried the National Rail App? When a journey is known to be disrupted on one or more legs, the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) app has offered alternatives routes / times to me.

[LiskeardRich]

Yes, understood.  Why I raise this ...

a) The 14:00 Cardiff - Penzance, change into the Portsmouth train at Temple Meads, change into the Swindon train at Trowbridge WERE all running.  And with in excess of the minimum connection time. Why did the App not offer this?

14:00 from Cardiff, 14:51 into Temple Meads

choice of
15:03 train towards Frome, 15:40 at Trowbridge or
15:23 train towards Portsmouth Harbour, 15:54 at Trowbridge

16:29 from Trowbridge to Melksham, arrives 16:38

Bristol temple meads has a minimum connection time of 10 mins according to national rail website.
Booking systems can not sell an itinerary less than this.

Yes - but there was either 12 or 32 minutes available at Bristol Temple Meads, and the 49 or 35 minutes available at Trowbridge, so ...

There's your answer right there.....

No Chris, that is not my answer as to why there was nothing offered from Cardiff between 13:30 and 16:23. All four trains listed above are in the timetable, all four ran at least the part of the route I needed, and the connections offered were way in excess of minimum time. 

35 and 49 mins I believe are in excess of the rules set up for reasonable connections,

[grahame]

35 and 49 mins I believe are in excess of the rules set up for reasonable connections,

Colloquially, yes, over half an hour starts to become unreasonable - but that does not stop the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) timetable and booking engine routinely offering them. Here is an example of an 81 minutes wait at Trowbridge this morning, which I would not attempt to market.



Rather oddly, the 06:32 off Melksham DOES officially connect into the first Weymouth train this morning at Westbury as it's varied to leave 3 minutes later than normal ... and that's enough of a change time now.  In practise, I made this change (06:48 to 06:50) on Friday from one 3 car 166 to another 3 car 166 ... and it has me wondering if the norm should be a through service to Weymouth with a connection ( 7 minutes ) on to Salisbury and Southampton.