It's not the train that's the problem...

[whole diary]

[matth1j]

After a successful 3 commutes last week I got up nice and early again to catch the 06:32 Melksham to Trowbridge service, only to see that it hadn't left Gloucester - 'delayed'. Kept checking it (National Rail, phone (app) & laptop), but no change. So I was resigned to reverting back to the 07:21 Melksham Chippenham service.

And I was checking that the 7:21 was on time just before 6, when I noticed that the 06:32 was showing as on time! The revised timings were now showing it as having left Gloucester 2 mins late, followed by lots of 'Information Unavailable' at subsequent stops, but on time at Swindon and beyond.

I just managed to get out of the door and jog a significant portion of the 1.6 miles to Melksham to catch it, but honestly I'm not sure what's worse - unreliable trains or unreliable train times 

[TaplowGreen]

After a successful 3 commutes last week I got up nice and early again to catch the 06:32 Melksham to Trowbridge service, only to see that it hadn't left Gloucester - 'delayed'. Kept checking it (National Rail, phone (app) & laptop), but no change. So I was resigned to reverting back to the 07:21 Melksham Chippenham service.

And I was checking that the 7:21 was on time just before 6, when I noticed that the 06:32 was showing as on time! The revised timings were now showing it as having left Gloucester 2 mins late, followed by lots of 'Information Unavailable' at subsequent stops, but on time at Swindon and beyond.

I just managed to get out of the door and jog a significant portion of the 1.6 miles to Melksham to catch it, but honestly I'm not sure what's worse - unreliable trains or unreliable train times 

Well, with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) we get plenty of both! 

[grahame]

I - totally - agree with you on reliability of information; I have a smidgin of sympathy with the chaps and chapesses in "Control" who have to do their best in developing situations, but in my view some of the tools they have to help them are very crude and blunt, and there are far to many situations that simply should not develop in the first place.   

I raised these very matters along with nearly two dozen others with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) managers last Tuesday in London - a dozen of them during a round table (OK, it was not really round in physical terms) with our MP^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context) and this week I am distilling and writing up element of that list to stop the key ones being lost in the flood, and to help the ones that can quickly be assigned to get actually followed though by someone else moved on.

[Clan Line]

I - totally - agree with you on reliability of information; ..................

Before I went out on Saturday to photograph the Cl 37 double-headed excursion, I checked on RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website). It showed the train as being between Southampton and Romsey - so I drove out to meet it. I checked RTT again when I parked - it now said that "this service was cancelled - due to a problem at the depot (MU^▸ (Multiple Unit))"  but...........further down the page it showed the train as "arriving" at Salisbury !  I started to get really worried until it finally showed up about 5 mins late.

It is still showing as cancelled on RTT ...........so please ignore my photo, I was obviously hallucinating.

[grahame]

And - again - yesterday (evening) - it's not (just) the train - it's the incorrect information that this train will be cancelled but then it runs ...

Four trains were flagged up yesterday as not running using the word WILL rather than the word MIGHT between Westbury and Swindon. Two flagged up early in the day (due to.a shortage of crew) and a further two much later on (due to a train failure earlier in the day).     "They" somehow found crew and re-instated one of the trains that people had been signposted away from all through the day.

Sure, things happen and there will be the occasional changes - problem is these things are NOT occasional, and problems with real and phantom cancellations multiply up and make the perception worse even than the sum of the problems.

[matth1j]

Sure, things happen and there will be the occasional changes - problem is these things are NOT occasional, and problems with real and phantom cancellations multiply up and make the perception worse even than the sum of the problems.

Agreed. But just to point out that the issue I had (first post) seems to be something different - the service was initially showing as 'delayed', probably from about 05:00 to 05:45. Then it changed to 'departed at 05:13'. So presumably nothing to do with train crew and/or predictions of whether it would run or not; an IT glitch of some sort would be my guess, possibly supported by the fact that a number of visited stops down the line showed 'information unavailable'?

[ChrisB]

Something to bring up at their Stakeholder meeting in June?

[Hafren]

I wonder if a Delay Repay claim would be accepted on the basis of being informed of a cancellation and planning around that.

A somewhat similar situation with TfW recenty. The Manchester-Carmarthen (or something like that) was affected by disruption at Hereford, and the rest of the journey was cancelled. I had been intending to take it from CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) - it was a 4/5 car and likely to be not too busy. Then I saw it was cancelled. In this scenario it's not unusual for a replacement train to start at Cardiff; however, I checked Journeycheck, Tiger and RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website), and couldn't see any sign of a reinstatement from CDF.  I chose not to take the (2 car) stopper immediately after it because the cancellation would have pushed people onto the shorter train; I made a choice to wait for the next IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train - the now official name for the replacement for HSTs (manufactured by Hitachi in Kobe, Japan)).

I think it was just after the booked departure time that a headcode suggestive of a replacement train appeared on RTT, and not long after that the replacement showed on Tiger and Journeycheck. But by that point I had made other plans.

This is a bit different from the 'cancelled all day and then reinstated' scenario, as the operator was working with an issue that had just arose, so it is understandable that the information was late to arrive. However from the customer perspective the replacement train didn't exist until the last minute, and it would therefore be legitimate to think of the train as still effectively cancelled. It's still an inconvenience, however, and the business should be thinking about how this affects the customer if, for example, they were to make a Delay Repay claim on this basis. (I don't think I bothered on this occasion, as I'd chosen to miss the train after it as well.)

[grahame]

Something to bring up at their Stakeholder meeting in June?

Yes. Do you mean Stakeholder or Community meeting, Chris?

It is not something new to them; been brought up several times before, as recently as last week at a very senior level at their parliamentary drop in.

[ChrisB]

Stakeholder in June. That's the next meeting for the likes of us.

Next community meetings in October I believe (which may be their last?)

[grahame]

I wonder if a Delay Repay claim would be accepted on the basis of being informed of a cancellation and planning around that.

Interestingly, yes, I had a case of that.  Last train into Melksham cancelled so arrangement made to stay away for the night as was back on the first train out in the morning, train re-instated.  In that instance, the full fare was refunded which did not meet the cost of staying away, but never the less was appreciated.

[grahame]

Stakeholder in June. That's the next meeting for the likes of us.

Next community meetings in October I believe (which may be their last?)

Ah - OK - I have June labelled in my diary just as "Conference"

[ChrisB]

Have you not had the invite yet?

Stacey is on leave now I believe until middle of April.