Mark A
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« on: March 27, 2025, 11:53:35 » |
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Wondering how much of the rail used for railway lines is currently imported. Also thinking of the forces disrupting international trade and also UK▸ energy prices - and wondering how much of the remaining UK steel industry needs to close before 100% of what's needed for the rail system is imported.
Mark
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Electric train
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2025, 14:31:00 » |
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Wondering how much of the rail used for railway lines is currently imported. Also thinking of the forces disrupting international trade and also UK▸ energy prices - and wondering how much of the remaining UK steel industry needs to close before 100% of what's needed for the rail system is imported.
Mark
Network Rail is concerned about it UK supply base for rail products, around 200,000 tonnes (4,000km) per year and ensures it has contracts with British Steel but as its a global market British Steel is vulnerable and 200,000 is a splash in steel production
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2025, 14:38:29 » |
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From the BBC» : Thousands of jobs at risk as British Steel threatens closure
British Steel is launching a consultation that could see the closure of its two blast furnaces at Scunthorpe, putting up to 2,700 jobs at risk out of a workforce of 3,500.The company said the blast furnaces were "no longer financially sustainable" due to tough market conditions, the imposition of tariffs and higher environmental costs. The BBC understands British Steel was expecting a £1bn injection of government money to keep the business going, but was offered £500m. The Prime Minister's official spokesperson said the government had made a "generous offer" to British Steel and it would continue to work with the company and its Chinese owner Jingye to secure its future. The director general of trade group UK▸ Steel, Gareth Stace, said British Steel's announcement was a "pivotal moment" for the sector and the steel industry was "officially in a crisis". Community union general secretary Roy Rickhuss called it "a dark day" and urged Jingye and the UK Government "to resume negotiations before it is too late". He warned: "We are now on the cusp of becoming the only G7 country without domestic primary steelmaking capacity, it is no exaggeration to say that our national security is gravely threatened." The GMB union called it "devastating news for the people of Scunthorpe", while Unite general secretary Sharon Graham said the potential job losses were "a disgrace" and called for the government to work with it on a "sustainable way forward". "British Steel is guilty of trying to hold the government to ransom, while using its dedicated workforce as pawns," she said. British Steel has been owned by Jingye since 2020. The Chinese firm says it has invested more than £1.2bn into British Steel to maintain operations and claims it suffered financial losses of around £700,000 a day. British Steel chief executive Zengwei An said the consultations on the closure were "a necessary decision given the hugely challenging circumstances the business faces". The company has put forward a £2bn business plan, which was set out on Wednesday by the company's chief commercial officer Allan Bell speaking to the Business & Trade Select Committee. ''We have concluded that the only viable option for British Steel moving forward to decarbonise is to move to 100% electric arc furnace steelmaking," he said. "This is a £2bn project we estimate so it is not a project that the private sector is going to be able to implement without government support.'' The BBC understands that there was an expectation the government would meet this investment on a 50/50 basis. But what the government offered was £500m. This offer was rejected by British Steel during the past week. The BBC understands that at a meeting on Thursday morning between British Steel and the GMB and Community trade unions this £1bn figure was discussed. The government has a £2.5bn steel fund. British Steel said it would "continue to work with the UK government to explore options for the future of the business". The company is starting a formal consultation with its workforce and unions over three options: * The closure of the blast furnaces, steelmaking operations and Scunthorpe Rod Mill by early June 2025 * The closure of the blast furnaces and steelmaking operations in September 2025 * The closure of the blast furnaces and steelmaking operations at a future point beyond September 2025. Business and Trade Secretary Jonathan Reynolds said: "I know this will be a deeply worrying time for staff and, while this is British Steel's decision, we will continue working tirelessly to reach an agreement with the company's owners to secure its future and protect taxpayers' money. We've been clear there's a bright future for steelmaking in the UK. We've committed up to £2.5bn to rebuild the sector and will soon publish a Plan for Steel setting out how we can achieve a sustainable future for the workforce, industry and local communities."
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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broadgage
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2025, 15:28:48 » |
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I would support subsidising iron and steel manufacture, as such industries are of strategic importance. We need steel not just for railways but also shipbuilding and construction. In wartime we need steel to manufacture weapons. Even in peacetime some steel is needed to repair, replace and update weapons and military equipment. We should not be reliant on potential enemies, or even on uncertain allies for basic strategic materials.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard. It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc. A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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broadgage
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2025, 14:39:09 » |
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Parliament have been recalled and are sitting on a SATURDAY, which is exceptional. It looks as though the steel works are being nationalised. Very unusually, the emergency legislation includes provision for government representatives to enter the plant by force if need be.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard. It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc. A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2025, 17:34:08 » |
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The Chinese representatives were refused entry this morning, called the cops but they weren't allowed in.
It's not being nationalised today, just legislation to pass the blast furnaces into UK▸ ownership such that they can be refuelled & kept running.
Nationalisation may follow with further legislation after the Easter break if felt necessary
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broadgage
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2025, 16:35:33 » |
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Doubts have been raised as to the availability of suitable and sufficient coke to run the blast furnaces. Whilst HMG have guaranteed payment for the fuel, that does not ensure physical availability. I doubt that coke already in transit in russian or chinese ships will be available, expect mechanical breakdowns, delays, diversion to other ports or non compliant paperwork. Air freight might even have to be used.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard. It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc. A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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Mark A
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2025, 17:20:01 » |
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I had to look the date up. The last coke ovens on site closed in 2023. To run a blast furnace without the means on hand to make coke, and any stockpile largely gone, that must be hairy.
Mark
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ChrisB
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2025, 18:13:25 » |
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Doubts have been raised as to the availability of suitable and sufficient coke to run the blast furnaces. Whilst HMG have guaranteed payment for the fuel, that does not ensure physical availability. I doubt that coke already in transit in russian or chinese ships will be available, expect mechanical breakdowns, delays, diversion to other ports or non compliant paperwork. Air freight might even have to be used. One delivery had been made to a customs secured site, awaiting payment - which I guess has now been made since legislation has completed
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broadgage
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2025, 18:34:46 » |
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Doubts have been raised as to the availability of suitable and sufficient coke to run the blast furnaces. Whilst HMG have guaranteed payment for the fuel, that does not ensure physical availability. I doubt that coke already in transit in russian or chinese ships will be available, expect mechanical breakdowns, delays, diversion to other ports or non compliant paperwork. Air freight might even have to be used. One delivery had been made to a customs secured site, awaiting payment - which I guess has now been made since legislation has completed Was not aware of that, thanks for the update.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard. It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc. A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 09:17:36 » |
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From The GuardianNetwork Rail has stockpiled a year’s worth of rails in case of British Steel disruption
Reserves would give six months to find alternative supply if Scunthorpe blast furnaces are switched off
Network Rail has built up a stockpile of rails to last as long as a year in case of disruption in the supply from British Steel’s Scunthorpe works.
The company, which manages Britain’s railway tracks, has been stockpiling rails over the past 12 months as British Steel started to contemplate the closure of its two blast furnaces. The rails are stored at depots around the country.
British Steel’s Chinese owner, Jingye, last month announced plans to close the blast furnaces, putting 2,700 jobs at risk and threatening the UK▸ supply of long products such as rails and construction beams.
The UK government on Saturday stepped in to take control of the Scunthorpe factory with emergency legislation. It made the move, just short of nationalisation, because it was concerned that the UK would lose the ability to produce steel from iron ore in its last blast furnaces. Jonathan Reynolds, the business secretary, has directed British Steel to buy the raw materials needed to keep running, after Jingye decided to end production.
Many of the products made at Scunthorpe are readily available from other European suppliers. However, more than 80% of Britain’s rails come from the Lincolnshire plant. The stockpile would give Network Rail about six months to seek an alternative seller if the Scunthorpe blast furnaces are switched off, because of lead times in receiving orders from other sources.
Network Rail started considering the stockpile after Jingye announced in late 2023 that it was looking at replacing the blast furnaces with much cleaner electric arc furnaces. British Steel opened a new facility in November in Scunthorpe that will be able to store 25,000 tonnes of rails.
Network Rail already has flexible contracts with Austria’s Voestalpine and Germany’s Saarstahl that could fill the gap in supply if British Steel were to shut its blast furnaces before electric versions are up and running. Installing new electric arc furnaces, which do not rely on polluting coal, could take several years.
British Steel has said electric arc furnaces are suitable to make rails and other long products produced in Scunthorpe, although the conditions in the furnace need to be tightly controlled to avoid impurities. Network Rail has previously tested rails made in an electric arc furnace by Saarstahl.
A Network Rail spokesperson said: “We do not expect the announcement to have any impact on the continued delivery of reliable rail services for passengers and freight users.
“We are continuing to work with government and our suppliers, and we have comprehensive contingency plans in place to ensure the continued supply of rail needed to fulfil our operational needs.”
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broadgage
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« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 15:41:35 » |
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Electric arc furnaces are very useful for recycling of scrap steel, but are not used for production of new material from iron ore. They also consume a great amount of electricity, and there are already concerns as to the adequacy of UK▸ electricity supplies. UK electricity is very expensive, and is arguably overpriced, this wont encourage widespread use.
Arc furnaces are also a very "disturbing" load and often require expensive grid upgrades so as to minimise adverse effects on existing customers.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard. It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc. A 5 car DMU▸ is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 16:11:49 » |
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Netwrk rail have already tested arc-furnace produced rails from a European supplier with no ill effects
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