Standard Class Passengers In First Class Row

[whole diary]

[Lee]

From the I Hate FGW^▸ (First Great Western) blog (link below) :
http://ihatefirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2008/06/standing-room-only.html

"I'm so angry!! There are 'revenue protection officers' at Reading station this morning stopping anyone not holding a first class ticket from even standing up the first class end of the PLATFORM! They are now saying you can incur a penalty fare for STANDING in the first class end of the train! I wish I had some of your badges this morning I can tell you! So cross, on a 7.42 overcrowded service to not allow people to stand in first class is utterly ridiculous!"

[Lee]

Follow-up blog post link.
http://ihatefirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2008/06/cutting-mustard.html

[moonrakerz]

I came across another version of this a few years ago. Two of us were travelling First Class Chippenham to Paddington during the rush hour. The train was "taken out of service" at Swindon; all the occupants, plus those already on the platform were told to get on the next train. This was physically impossible due to gross overcrowding. We managed to get on the one after that, the First Class coaches were packed, with people standing all down the car and in the vestibules.
Then the Guard/Train Manager/Ticket Inspector fought his way down the coach. A disgruntled passenger standing next to me asked if he could have a refund as he had paid for a First Class ticket.
The reply ? "You are travelling Fist Class Sir, if you want a refund go and stand in Standard Class". I thought this passenger's head was going to explode - he went the colour of a beetroot and screamed "What did you say ?".
At this point the Guard/Train Manager/Ticket Inspector realised he had perhaps not said the most sensible thing and rapidly produced a pad of refund chits and a pen. We abandoned the train at Reading, the Guard/Train Manager/Ticket Inspector was still in that same coach writing refund notes as if his life depended on it - which it probably did !

[vacman]

I came across another version of this a few years ago. Two of us were travelling First Class Chippenham to Paddington during the rush hour. The train was "taken out of service" at Swindon; all the occupants, plus those already on the platform were told to get on the next train. This was physically impossible due to gross overcrowding. We managed to get on the one after that, the First Class coaches were packed, with people standing all down the car and in the vestibules.
Then the Guard/Train Manager/Ticket Inspector fought his way down the coach. A disgruntled passenger standing next to me asked if he could have a refund as he had paid for a First Class ticket.
The reply ? "You are travelling Fist Class Sir, if you want a refund go and stand in Standard Class". I thought this passenger's head was going to explode - he went the colour of a beetroot and screamed "What did you say ?".
At this point the Guard/Train Manager/Ticket Inspector realised he had perhaps not said the most sensible thing and rapidly produced a pad of refund chits and a pen. We abandoned the train at Reading, the Guard/Train Manager/Ticket Inspector was still in that same coach writing refund notes as if his life depended on it - which it probably did !

Since when are refunds issued on trains?

[moonrakerz]

I didn't say a refund was issued - I said "refund chits" were issued, to be redeemed at a ticket office.  As I was travelling on an MoD warrant I handed mine back to my travel office, who did say that they had never seen one before !

[Tickets Please]

I didn't say a refund was issued - I said "refund chits" were issued, to be redeemed at a ticket office.  As I was travelling on an MoD warrant I handed mine back to my travel office, who did say that they had never seen one before !

There is no such thing as a refund chit or pad issued to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) on train staff - certainly not in the last 8 or so years

[Phil]

Referring back to that blog post ("cutting the mustard") up there,

I'm not sure exactly what's going on at First Great Western with regard to First Class passengers, but something's up. As I reported in a previous post, my friend wrote to me complaining that there were staff on the platform at Reading trying to stop people even standing where the First Class carriages were going to stop

I rather suspect the recent clamp-down on standard class persons in First Class might have something to do with Reading Festival being on this weekend. Certainly both the trains I've travelled out of Paddington on in the past couple of days have been packed to the gunwales with young people carrying rucksacks. I'm fortunate enough to have an employer who enables me to travel First Class from time to time, and there was quite a hullabaloo early yesterday afternoon when the TM^‡(resolve) noticed that one of a group of youngsters standing in the First Class vestibule had a young person's railcard which had run out 10 days before. The guy argued (in a very reasoned voice, it has to be said) that he hadn't realised, and that the card had been valid when he'd bought his ticket online a couple of months ago; but as the TM pointed out, this wasn't a valid reason: it was up to the passenger to ensure it was up to date.

The TM at first demanded the full price, but then relented and told the guy that he wouldn't be able to leave the barriers at Reading without paying up (which quite frankly I don't believe is true... at busy times and weighed down by luggage you could wave a beer mat at some of the people who man those barriers and they'd open the gates).

I felt he (the TM) then lost it rather by stomping off saying "well at least there's one bit of good news" "What's that then?" asked the youngster, hopefully - "I get to go home when this gets into Bristol".

Which wasn't particularly funny and neither was it very professional to my mind - he ended up coming across as a bit of a jobsworth. The end result was that the kids all decided to go sit in First Class all the way to Reading, and I can't actually say I blame them, as irritated as I know some of my fellow businessmen were.

[Ollie]

Referring back to that blog post ("cutting the mustard") up there,

The TM^‡(resolve) at first demanded the full price, but then relented and told the guy that he wouldn't be able to leave the barriers at Reading without paying up (which quite frankly I don't believe is true... at busy times and weighed down by luggage you could wave a beer mat at some of the people who man those barriers and they'd open the gates).

Have to disagree with that, Reading Barrier Staff have been doing very well this week, and revenue protection have been doing well also in regard to travel irregularities.

Based on my observations and from talking to them on way home

[moonrakerz]

I didn't say a refund was issued - I said "refund chits" were issued, to be redeemed at a ticket office.  As I was travelling on an MoD warrant I handed mine back to my travel office, who did say that they had never seen one before !

There is no such thing as a refund chit or pad issued to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) on train staff - certainly not in the last 8 or so years

Oh dear,  I do wish people would at least read what I put in my post. I said this happened "a few years ago", not last week or last year ! And before anyone asks I didn't get the name of the man who was writing the refund chits either.

Apart from which:- could I quote from the (current !) FGW website ?

"If you hold a First Class ticket for a high speed service and have to stand for more than 20 minutes (or more than one stop where this is longer than 20 minutes), we will refund you in National Rail vouchers the difference between the cost of your First Class ticket for the affected leg of your journey and the corresponding Standard Class ticket. To claim your refund, you must contact a member of the on-board staff at the time of travel for verification, then make your claim by contacting our Customer Services Team."

Without wishing to appear pedantic (which some denizens of this site appear to be !) - this appears to be exactly what happened to myself and the other passengers, as I related in my OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter).

Verification = refund chit
Customer Services Team = Ticket Office

It would appear, therefore, that the details of my little story were not only correct "a few years ago"; but are in fact correct for the present day as well.

[Phil]

Well argued, Moonrakerz. I must say I did nearly step in a while back and mention that you did actually say this was "a few years ago", but quickly came to the conclusion that you were quite obviously perfectly capable of standing up for yourself!

I shall look forward to your future posts with renewed interest... heh

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks very much for that clarification, moonrakerz!

My only reservation about the issue of rail travel vouchers (as opposed to cash refunds, for example) is that indirectly they do impose limits on what you can use them for.  As an example, I still have a couple of vouchers from FGW^▸ (First Great Western), dating back to 'compensation' for the delays caused by the infamous December 2007 timetable changes.  However, a voucher for ^25 is not much use to me, when paying for my normal commute costing ^3.80, for example.

I shall clearly have to treat myself to a longer journey (by first class) somewhere! 

[devon_metro]

Do they not give you change?

[Chris from Nailsea]

No, they don't, Liam.

On the back of the voucher, it states, "This voucher is not exchangeable for cash nor can change be given."

I agree: 

[devon_metro]

Blimey!!! I didn't know that!

[vacman]

Blimey!!! I didn't know that!

Thats OK liam, you could use it to buy and ADULT ticket.