How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

UstiImmigrunt

Full Member

Posts: 84

How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

« on: February 07, 2025, 11:58:52 »

After a long overland journey I made it to Porto yesterday.

Today the plan was a few runs along the Douro Valley. But....

A slight farce. Class 20 clone and 3 coaches going along the Douro Valley. Defect with the middle coach, not to go any further. The UK^▸ way, cancel and punters to board the Regua stopper adjacent which leaves in 45 minutes.

The Portuguese way. Uncouple the loco and run round whilst transferring the passengers. Split off the first coach then reverse back beyond the points then propel the defective vehicle and the one with passengers on board into a siding. Detach defective vehicle and secure it. Take the good coach out of the siding and then propel onto the other good coach, passengers still on board both vehicles. Couple up the coaches then run round the loco and depart. From station stop to departure took around 40 minutes.

Please do not show this post to the following company on medical grounds, you don't want to strain the NHS with multiple heart attacks.

The ORR^» .
DaFT^» .
Notwork Fail.
The Operation Standards of the majority of UK passenger TOCs^▸ .

Train on the move an hour late. The next southbound around 20 late due to crossing at an unplanned station loop. Also the back working will be at least 40 late.


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Retired and loving it!

Pround owner of a brand new little red book and an annual first class https://oneticket.cz/networkPassSearch

It will be well used and I doubt I'll ever get any delay repay compensation.

Witham Bobby

Transport Scholar
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Posts: 706

Re: How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2025, 12:57:13 »

Quote from: UstiImmigrunt on February 07, 2025, 11:58:52

The experience in Portugal is very familiar to what would have happened on BR^▸ back in the 1970s, with the possible difference that the passengers would all have been tipped out onto the platform whilst the shunting movements were going on. That would have depended on whether any points which became facing during any movement were properly secured by a facing point lock


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UstiImmigrunt

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Posts: 84

Re: How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2025, 16:58:20 »

No FPLs^▸ for the crossing loops on the Douro Valley. One member of staff sent to each end of the loop to manually pull the hand point then waves a red hand signal to the driver as authority to proceed then the person in charge of the station dispatches the train with a red hand signal. Simple.

Hopefully no heart attacks...


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eightonedee

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Posts: 1766

Re: How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2025, 18:35:43 »

With apologies if I have posted this comment before...

Here there seems to be some kind of lottery when problems occur with one coach of a train. My 20-odd years' experience as a commuter before I retired in 2022 was that if a problem occurred (almost always a door problem), there was no way of telling whether they would simply lock that doorway out of use, lock the entire carriage out of use or "fail the train", get everyone off at the next station and send an empty train on to the depot.

I appreciate that as a mere passenger I would not know what any fundamental problem might be, but I would hope that the first of these would be the default in the absence of any other consideration, and the last only applied in serious cases where there was some problem creating a danger for all passengers.

Can any professional railwayman forum members throw any light on this? ("Railwayman" being here used as a gender neutral description of someone who works (or used to work) for a railway company!)


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IndustryInsider

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Posts: 10405

Re: How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2025, 19:02:37 »

A faulty door that can’t be used has three potential scenarios. From memory, if it’s at the end of the train then that carriage has to be taken out of use if there is no escape route.

If the carriage with the faulty door contains the emergency equipment usually the whole train has to come out of use.

Otherwise, generally, a single door fault just means that door can be locked out of use and the carriage, and the train, remain in service.

There may be subtle differences depending on the type of train. For example, IET^▸ doors can be locked out of use electronically, so there is still a means of escape available as they are not physically locked and can still be opened in an emergency.


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UstiImmigrunt

Full Member

Posts: 84

Re: How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2025, 19:17:27 »

I cannot give a clear answer unfortunately.

It depends on the type of train, what exactly the defect is and which door on the train it is. For example on older stock if an extreme end door is locked out of use then the whole vehicle is taken out as you don't have an emergency exit in case of a fire....

But on an IET^▸ you can lock out the passenger doors behind the cab but they will still open if an emergency ingress is used.

And it also depends on when. Pre First Group Sprinter drivers were taught the faults and failures very intensively. You want to go home, you repair the fault. But the First Group policy is phone a friend, someone in control who had a couple of cards with flow charts but physically has never been in the engine room of a HST^▸ power car or walked around a Sprinter. Part of this was to do with delay minutes, Driver Managers didn't like budgets being drained if a driver made a mistake.

And also how the fault is described between train crew and control differs..

Some of the things I did to get Sprinters moving would give out the "You can't do that!" from control or management.


« Last Edit: February 07, 2025, 20:02:49 by UstiImmigrunt »	Logged

UstiImmigrunt

Full Member

Posts: 84

Re: How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2025, 10:37:27 »

Today's farce, cement train has stalled on the bank north of Ermesinde. Whilst waiting for another engine normal passenger service continues using the fully signalled bi directional working. What helps is the reduced service on a Sunday morning.


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UstiImmigrunt

Full Member

Posts: 84

Re: How to Run a Railway, Portuguese style.

« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2025, 17:31:11 »

I looked a little closer today at crossing moves on the Douro Valley. The points aren't fitted with a UK^▸ style FPL^▸ but are locked into position. The points operator carries a red flag and a yellow flag, today the yellow one was waved as authority to exit the single line and enter station limits.

There is a set pattern of crossing moves but if there's a change the driver is advised in writing at the previous loop as to the new crossing location.


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